Unleash Thyself w/ Constantin Morun

Unleash Thyself w/ Constantin Morun

August 18, 2023

In this Episode of the Men’s Therapy Podcast our guest Constantin Morun joins us to talk about overcoming barriers to vulnerability. In immigrating to Canada from Romania he had to reexamine his upbringing, his family, and his cultural norms.

Episode Transcript:

Intro: [00:00:00] Mark Azulay is an industry leader in psychotherapy and men’s mental health. He’s helped countless guys get back on their feet, deepen their relationships, and excel in their lives. Now, he’s taken all that he has learned and is sharing it with you. In each episode, Mark will interview an expert in the field of masculinity and men’s work.

We’ll cover topics such as emotional intelligence, masculine identity. Anger management, financial health, trauma recovery, marriage and divorce, ethics, and spirituality. Tune in and become a better man.

Mark: Welcome back to the men’s therapy podcast. I’m here with Constantine Maroon. He’s a life coach, empowerment coach, helps people build emotional intelligence. Um, and we’re here to talk about redefining masculinity. You know, and kind of getting into a more vulnerable place. You have an amazing podcast called Unleash Thyself.

That’s [00:01:00] wonderful. I recommend listening to it. If you enjoy our podcast, check him out. But Konstantin, welcome 

Constantin Morun: to the show. Well, Mark, it’s such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me on the show. And hello to everyone listening. 

Mark: Yeah, I’m really excited to hear more about your story, right? Um, as I’m kind of moving into this men’s therapy space, it’s both like surprising and inspiring how many guys just want to talk about this.

You know, I thought I’d encounter a lot more resistance right of guys being like, no, that’s like, you know, that’s for losers or, or that’s like, I don’t want to go there. Um, but yeah, you jumped right at the bit and I, I want to hear your story. So let’s, let’s dive right in. Like what’s, what’s your story on masculinity and, and culture and.

Constantin Morun: Yeah, I mean, my story starts all the way back in Eastern Europe, where I was born, the communist era, so you can imagine masculinity was defined in a very specific way in those times in that place in the world. So I grew up in an environment where men and women had very defined jobs and roles within. And of course, I was a young [00:02:00] child during the communist era, but a lot of those imprints were happening to me that I wasn’t necessarily aware of.

And imprints around scarcity and fear based behaviors and how I should behave in life. For example, as a man, I was told very early on in life and shown In school, in society, and everywhere else, that it’s not okay to show emotions, it’s not okay to cry, not okay to be yourself. You have to be someone that a person without authority would feel like you should be, right?

Like, be it your parents. Whoever was raising you, in my case, grandparents, then teachers, then everyone else in society, right? So I grew up with all those ideas, and I thought that was normal. And when I was 17, and this is in 2000 now, my parents decided to immigrate to Canada. And bring us the kids together with them so we can have a better future or a chance of the better future in North America, right?

Follow or chase the American dream, get, you know, [00:03:00] a good degree and move on in life from there. So that’s kind of where it all started for me. 

Mark: Yeah. What are some of the messages that you got growing up in Eastern Europe? I mean, I have some assumptions, but I want to hear from you. 

Constantin Morun: Yeah, I would love to hear your assumptions too, because it’s always fascinating to see what.

Um, other people from North America or other parts of the world think of that part of the world, because funny enough, I thought that what I was going through was more unique to Eastern Europe, but as I came to Canada and I interview many people from across the world, right? Like Africa and Asia, other parts of Europe and even North America, you realize that we’re actually a lot more similar than we’re not despite us growing up in different societies and different religions and cultures, but some of the things that.

Eyebrow with me or the word imprinted on me early on are things such as a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. Meaning that if I were to make a mistake. That’s something to be ashamed of, it’s something to hide, it’s something to [00:04:00] ignore for the most part and just move on as fast as you can. Which means that, of course, if you look at mistakes like that, it’s very hard for you to actually learn anything out of it.

And also may lead you down a path where you’re not going to be as honest with yourself and others. Because if I make a mistake and I feel ashamed of it, which happened a lot, then I don’t want to talk about it, right? What goes with that as well is the idea that if You make a mistake, you are to be punished, right?

So then it instills this idea in some people, and I was one of them as well, that, well, it’s time to hide those mistakes, right? If you make something, you know, downplay it, do something so you don’t get punished, right? So that was a big one. Of course, I mentioned earlier, another big, uh, big one was around how you should Behave as a man or how you should be, right?

How to treat women, what to do in the home, like chores, right? Like, you know, a man doesn’t do anything in the house. That’s the culture I came from, right? And it took me a while to, [00:05:00] to wrap my head around that and, and tear it down. But those are just some examples of the things that they came with. They came with me and stayed with me for actually a very long time.

Mark: Yeah, I’m really interested in both, but the fixed mindset piece, because I see that a lot with the guys that I, that I work with. Right. And this, this fear, right, this fear of authority, this fear of, like, getting in trouble. Which is, you know, as the, as a therapist, like that’s such a young way of thinking, right?

Like when you get older, it’s like, who are you going to get in trouble with? You know, like, you don’t really, your parents aren’t around in the same way. Um, and like you mentioned, going to the growth mindset of, it’s more about like success and failure. And failures help you learn how to succeed, right?

Like the idea is like, you know, no shame, no judgment, look at it, be like, okay, you know, maybe I messed this up, but how do I do it better next time? Um, but yeah, I’m interested in that kind of like fixed punishment. Mindset that was that religion based for you, or did it feel more culture? Did it feel more paternal?

Like 

Constantin Morun: it’s a lot more culture than [00:06:00] anything else. Right. And it was to some degree from a family perspective as also I grew up with my grandparents and for them, the way they appeared in front of others is very important, which meant that if you show up in a, in a way that may jeopardize how they appear in front of others, that’s the demand that’s mental to them.

Right. And I don’t blame them. They only. Shown me and my brother and everyone else, what they knew, right? So they, they gave us their best. They thought that was their best, but there were a lot of limiting beliefs around that, right? So for example, I remember a scenario I was, um, dating, I’m using this word loosely because I was like 14, 13, maybe a girl from next door, well, I guess the next building over, and I was told by my grandparents and then even other people, it’s like, you shouldn’t hang out with a girl because she doesn’t have a father.

And when she doesn’t have a father, I mean, meaning that, you know, the parents are So even that, and this was back in the 90s [00:07:00] now. So that type of culture was predominant there where it’s like you have some very fixed societal norms and if you deviate from them, you were seen as less than. So then if you look at, for example, how I did in school, right, if I didn’t get straight A’s, which for us would be grade 10 or grade nine, right at the top, again, you would be Seen as less than it would be almost like a competition.

Well, you know, if my child doesn’t have the best grades, then me as a parent. I’m going to appear as a failure in front of my friends or anyone else. So there’s all of that society pressure and fear built in. 

Mark: Yeah, totally. Right. Like you said, everything is personal. Everything is personal and competitive, you know.

Constantin Morun: Yeah, exactly. 

Mark: Yeah. So, so you, you come to America, right? And did you get culture shock? I mean, what did you experience when you first, you know, arrived here? 

Constantin Morun: Yeah, that’s a great question, Mark. I mean, of course, uh, the culture shock was pretty big because I mean, we left everything behind, right? Like most people do when [00:08:00] they immigrate, when they move to a country, either by choice or not, they leave everything behind.

Now, we were fortunate to be able to, uh, Have some people that we met here also from Romania, and that was actually a pretty big, I would say, community of Romanian. So we were able to make friends early on, but it wasn’t the same as friendships you had for, you know, half a decade or a decade or and so on.

But the culture shock was big in terms of not just the weather, but also how everything was laid out in terms of just a simple, you know, the houses and the apartment buildings, but also. So. How people interacted, right? People are much nicer. They seem fake because they’re so nice, right? And they’re like, well, I’m not used to this.

What’s happening here, right? And then, of course, when I went to school to continue my high school education, I was in a shock because now I had access to so many different nationalities. I think at one point I counted 50 different nationalities I was interacting with on a, on a regular basis. And that was amazing in itself, but it was also culture [00:09:00] shock because obviously people are different when they come from different cultures.

So for my young brain, I was 17 at the time. It took me a while to, to adjust and say, well, you know, I can be friends with someone that doesn’t look like me. And that’s fine. And again, that’s a big thing coming out of Eastern Europe. There’s a lot of racism. There’s a lot of, you know, discrimination around things that are unfamiliar.

Mark: Yeah. And it’s a fairly, like, homogenous culture, right? Like, most people are kind of local. There isn’t as much immigration immigration. So that makes sense, right? That you would, you wouldn’t be exposed to it. So it would feel very strange, you know, threatening. Yeah, 

Constantin Morun: it was for sure. And then I would say the other big one that we see this with families coming from Latin America as well in Asia.

Yeah. In North America, there’s less of a focus on, essentially, the family aspect of it and the extended family, right? And I didn’t have a big family in Romania, but there were a lot of gatherings and we would, let’s say, go to a cousin’s, um, village and we’ll spend some time there or visit [00:10:00] people. But when it came to Canada, people were not really doing that, right?

Like, there were still gatherings, but they weren’t, you know, the familiar bonds weren’t as tight knit as you would expect. 

Mark: Yeah, I think that’s true in North America, right? Like it’s especially of like white Caucasian culture. It’s like, you know, a lot more people, but it’s a lot shallower. Rather than having like the same family you’ve been meeting with for the same holidays for your entire life, you know, 

Constantin Morun: and that’s a, that’s a big one there.

Because the shallowness is something I didn’t really realize until much later in my life. And I, like you just mentioned, you know, I knew so many people. I thought I had so many friends, but then I moved away. From Toronto area to what I am right now in Halifax on the east coast of Canada, and I kept quite a few friendships, but a lot of them just disappeared because I was no longer physically present and doing activities with those people, and I realized how shallow they were when I thought all along that they were actually pretty in depth relationships.

[00:11:00] And then, of course. I’ve been here where I am right now for six years, and I met people through my hobbies. I play cards, I play soccer, so through those elements, and you know, I go on hikes and stuff, I met a lot of people, and I have what I would call friends. But I wouldn’t say that, like, to your point, like, they are, they are deep friends that could have an open conversation like you and I are having right now, even because it’s a lot more shallow on the surface.

So when I realized that even though I’ve been here for six years almost, and I’ve met all these people and I’m having a good time with them, uh, the relationships are not at the depth that I would like for myself moving forward because you and I talked at the, at the beginning about how more people are opening up, especially men talking about exactly what we’re talking about right now.

But still, there’s a lot. That I’m not doing that, then I’m not comfortable. So when they see me being vulnerable and authentic, that puts them off. And it’s, you know, technically it should be a win win situation for both of us, but it usually ends up being the opposite. 

Mark: Yeah, let’s, let’s dive into [00:12:00] that. I mean, I have a whole spiel on that, but I want to hear from you first is what do you think gets in the way of guys connecting?

Because I agree. I think, like, Emotionally vulnerable, intimate male community is what the world needs, right? What guys need. A lot of us are so, so lonely, right? And feel invisible. So I’m curious if it gets in the way. 

Constantin Morun: Like I look at myself, a lot of it got in the ways how I was raised. But how I looked at life, right?

And I thought that by being vulnerable, that makes me weak, which means that I can be taken advantage of. And that’s what was instilled in me, not just by my family. Again, there was some of it there, but there was culture. And not just the culture in Romania, but also the culture in North America and in Canada specifically.

Because when I went through high school and I went through university, through engineering and mathematics, there were no discussions around this. Mm-Hmm. . And if, let’s say you see a man or a boy at the time, let’s say, showing emotions will be made, he [00:13:00] will be made fun of, right? If they will show any of these vulnerability that you and I talk about, or authenticity, they would likely be ostracized.

So a lot of it has to do with societal norms, and I think that’s across the board in all cultures, obviously the degrees vary quite a bit, but what I’ve come to realize, so how it came over the hump is I realized that I, if I’m not authentic to myself, if I’m not vulnerable, then I can’t show up as my best version and I can work on myself for the same degree I would want to, and at the same time, I can’t help others.

And if my mission in life. Is to be in service to myself and others, how can I be in service of others? If I can’t be myself, 

Mark: I think that’s really well said. And that’s really well said. And it’s like, just to say another way, right? It’s like, if you don’t go to those depths of feeling in yourself, you can’t be there when someone else goes there, right?

We end up shutting down. If someone’s feeling sadness or grief or anger or hurt, if we don’t know what that’s like, we just back away, you know? 

Constantin Morun: [00:14:00] Exactly. And I’ve been there myself many times, but it’s like, Ooh, he’s going through that or she’s going to that. I don’t know what to do. So I’m just going to step away and ignore it.

Right. As if he goes away by itself. 

Mark: Yeah. You know, one of the things that I think gets in the way of male connection that I want to hear your opinion on is competition. You know how we’re all quietly and sometimes not so quietly competing with each other. Like you said, like, who’s the top dog? Who’s the alpha?

Who, you know, who’s going to win? Do you experience some of that? 

Constantin Morun: Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great point. I mean, I remember in Romania growing up, when we, um, went from grade eight to high school, we had to take essentially exams. So there was like mathematics exams and English, also Romanian language exams, and then you would get a grade and then the high schools would actually only allow specific grade ranges to, to, to attend that high school.

So I remember I had to, well, according to my parents, I had to go to the best high [00:15:00] school in town, right? My parents were both engineers. My father, a professor at the university in town. And of course I had good grades growing up. So I had to try to apply for the best high school. So then there was a lot of competition there because now I was competing against my friends.

And everyone else to try to get a place in this high school that only allowed about 100 students per academic year. So that was the first part of it. And of course, as you get into classes, you compete against the other students. And it’s almost like you compete through your parents as well, because not necessarily in my case, but I’ve seen it with other colleagues of mine or other people I went to school with where their parents were so competitive.

And if one would get better grades and the other one would get punished. Right. And I will see that a lot now moving that to North America, competition happens, maybe not as much on the surface. You can see it, but it always, it always is there, right? Like if you look at the corporate America where I work right now, or I’ve been for quite a bit of time, there’s always [00:16:00] competition, like you reward the top performance, which is great.

You should reward them. But then you also incentivize people to maybe step over each other and not help each other out as much as they. They should, and we see that across the board, like it’s not something that was specific to Romania. It’s everywhere. 

Mark: Yeah, I think that’s true. And like you said, there’s like that stoic strategy that a lot of men adopt of like plow forward, don’t make friends, don’t communicate, don’t show weakness.

Whereas what we know, even from like myth all the way back to ancient Greek mythology is that it’s people’s wounds that give them superpowers, right? Like by knowing the vulnerabilities, you know what that person is really good at, actually. And you can build a much better team if you know the full person rather than just being like, you know, corporate robots.

Constantin Morun: Exactly. And that’s something that I’ve been in various or within the corporate America, and I’ve seen a lot of organizations try to bridge the gap now and teach the leaders in those organizations that this is actually important, but I still feel like it’s so far off from what it should [00:17:00] be. However, it starts with conversations like this.

It starts with us. Realizing that change cannot happen until we change ourselves. It doesn’t matter if it’s changed within my relationship with my partner, my parents, my dogs. It doesn’t matter. It’s not about them. It’s about us first. So it’s about me first. So if I change myself, that means I can impact everyone around me.

Mark: Yeah, I think that’s, that’s great. Um, we’re going to move to our first commercial break, but when we come back, I want to hear more about that, right? Some changes that you’ve made in yourself, some things that you’ve seen, um, how you help other people to do the same. Um, and also want to hear kind of about this catalytic moment, this moment where you want to look at your masculinity or you wanted to be like, oh, wow, I could do things differently.

I don’t have to be in this box that was put on by my culture and my family. Right? There’s so much more out there as part of being a man. So we ought to talk about, uh, if you’re listening, hang on in there and we’ll see you on the other side of the commercial break,[00:18:00] 

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Mark: Welcome back to the show. I’m sitting here with Constantine Maroon. He’s the host of the unleashed. I self podcast, and he’s a life coach mentor. Um, and his day job is he works at Microsoft and in the corporate America. Um, so you’re a really busy guy. I I’m interested in learning about this catalytic moment.

Where you decided to start the inner journey, right? Whether that be around your masculinity or [00:21:00] emotionality or vulnerability or, or whatever, like what, what kicked it off for you? 

Constantin Morun: I hear your question, Mark. And before we jump into what kicked it off, I should mention one thing that I believe is happening a lot in the world, especially with men.

Is I grew up, doesn’t matter if I was in Romania or North America, thinking that the answers were always outside of me. Either my parents, society, teachers, mentors, doesn’t matter what, right? And what that meant is that I would look outwards for answers. So I might read a personal development, professional development book.

I would take all the amazing stuff and let’s say I’ll apply some of it. Some will work, some wouldn’t. But what I came to realize about six years ago is that a lot of the progress that we can make as human beings, men or women, lies in us actually looking inwards for those answers. And asking permission to ourselves and not externally.

And that was a concept that was very hard for me to grasp at the beginning. It took me a bit of time to wrap [00:22:00] my head around it and realize the power of actually going inwards. And as I mentioned, that journey started around six years ago when I, Join Microsoft. And I actually was exposed for the first time to the term growth mindset and what it meant and why it meant in the context of the culture of Microsoft.

And they gave me access to a lot of resources that I could tap into to look at growth mindset from many different angles. So that got me thinking about a lot of different things. So I began a journey where I’m like realizing, wait a second, a lot of the things I’ve been doing have been. Fixed in mindset.

And now I want to make the transition and I want to emphasize that this is not something that happens overnight. It takes a bit of time. And of course, with guidance for people like yourself, Mark or others, or like myself, you can shorten the period, but it always requires you to put in the work, take action and put in some time.

Mark: Yeah, I want to dig on that, right? Like, because I do work with [00:23:00] corporate and there’s always resources. Like you said, there’s like, Hey, you got these coaching sessions. Hey, you know, you got these online courses, you know, read these books. We got a library. We got a meditation room. Right? And I mean, you probably know more than me.

Most people don’t use them, right? Like they’re so available, but most people don’t do it. So I wonder for you or for with the clients and companies that you work with, like. What is that? What’s the difference maker, right? Like, like, what gets somebody to read the book? What gets someone to do the class?

We’ll get someone to attend the mental health talk. 

Constantin Morun: Yeah, for me and what I’ve come to realize in, uh, in my life is that awareness plays a key factor in this. So until I became aware of some of my shortcomings, some of the things I wanted to change, I wasn’t able to do anything. And then of course, just being aware that you can change and there are, like you said, meditation rooms and all these books and coaching sessions is not enough.

You have to have a desire to make the change. And that desire to me is split up in multiple parts. Firstly, it starts with giving yourself. [00:24:00] Permission to chase after whatever it is that you want to chase after. And why I mentioned that today, and I found that something I was struggling with a lot is because, as I mentioned earlier, when I was looking externally for answer and validation, there was also related to permission, so I’ll be like, Oh, let me ask my friends or my family.

What would they think about this? It’s almost like I would second guess myself all the time and then reach out externally and ask someone that doesn’t know me as well as I know myself to tell me what the right answer is. And then as part of the desire is also this idea of. Looking at what’s in it for you and saying, you know what, I do want to make this change in my life.

So if let’s say I want to progress in my career. Okay, so what are the resources available to progress my career? But without that awareness and desire piece, not a lot can happen. So what I have found in my work, either through Microsoft or other corporate employees, as well as my personal life and anyone else I coach and mentor, is that it has to [00:25:00] start with Inspiring people to, to look inwards, to look for spots where there’s opportunity for growth.

But you have to identify those. I, let’s say, you know, Mark, you and I chat, you can tell me your story. I can challenge some of your thought processes. I can pinpoint some locations, but you have to find those because the desire has to be within you. It doesn’t matter if your coach or your therapist wants the best for you, unless you put in the work, nothing happens.

And I’ve been there myself so many times, Mark, where I’d be like, I would read five books. But then I’m like, I’m not gonna put anything into practice because I’m expecting somehow magically the promise to be fixed. 

Mark: Totally. I’ve been there too, right? Like, without that desire. And I would add a little spicier take of like, I think there has to be pain.

There has to be like awareness of the pain, you know, of like, yeah, I’m not having the relationships I want, right? I’m not as successful as I want to be right. Like, I do feel lonely. I think so many, I mean, probably men and women, but we’ll stay focused on guys, right? Like numb out with alcohol, right? Or.

Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:00] Video games or gambling or sports or whatever it is, right? Like, I think we’re really good at cutting off that pain, you know? And it wasn’t until I became aware of it, like you said, that I felt that I was like, shit, I need to change because my life can’t be this, you know? 

Constantin Morun: And you know, what’s funny is something that I didn’t really understand early on.

It’s like, Everything I’ve done up to this point led me to this point in life where I’m not happy with who I am. Like you said, maybe addictions to food, like in my case, or gambling or whatever other addictions some of my has or numbness or a way to find excuses. But if you’re able to achieve that, which meant you made choices together, that means you can also undo it and make new choices and get new outcomes.

And that was a concept that actually stuck with me from Romania because it was instilled in me back then that free will doesn’t exist. Right. You can make some choices, but you don’t have control over many of them. And it wasn’t until much later when I realized, wait a second, you actually have free will in everything you do.

Like even [00:27:00] something as extreme as paying taxes, right? Like it’s your choice if you pay taxes. Now, the outcomes might be unfavorable if you don’t pay them, but then you have a choice. Like, do you move to another country that doesn’t tax you as much? Do you move to a country that doesn’t tax you at all?

Move states if you’re in America, right? Like you have choices, right? But for most of us. Based on how we grew up and how we learn from society, we feel like we don’t have a choice. 

Mark: Yeah, I find that really interesting, right? Because I, you know, I was born in America. My, my parents are immigrants. Um, you know, one was actually born in Canada, um, then England, and then one was born in Morocco.

Uh, but I was born in America and this idea of like personal freedom and free will is so that’s like what the culture is about in so many ways. Um, so it’s really interesting to talk to somebody where like, that wasn’t an assumption, right? Like you said, it was very deterministic or it was very, uh, controlled.

Can you say more about that? Like, yeah, 

Constantin Morun: I’ve had the conversation with my parents, um, maybe a few months ago now when I. It felt almost like a therapy session in a sense, because I [00:28:00] would express my belief in free will and choices. And both my mother and my father were like, no, there’s no such thing. And then we started diving into it deeper.

And my father was very adamant in, no, there is no free will and choices. You know, some you can make, some you don’t. And then I had a deeper conversation with my mother and we picked up some examples. And then we brought them down together. So I was kind of challenging, not kind of, I was challenging her thought process and I was challenging her style of school and her beliefs.

And all of a sudden you can kind of start to realize how those threads that people hold on to, those old beliefs start to break apart. Because a great example she gave me was that when she went to university, so this is back in, 70s, I would say she didn’t have a choice. She wanted to go do something, but she was told to do something else.

And I said, okay, how do you not have a choice? So she’s like, well, if I wanted to do what I felt in my heart, I would have had to move cities and then live in a dorm and then it’d be more difficult. Right. And that’s kind of where she stopped. And I was like, well, wait a [00:29:00] second. I mean, you’re just telling me you had the choice, but was.

Very hard. Like I said, it would bring a lot of pain because you have to leave your family behind. You would have to maybe work a bit more. You have to live in a place that’s not as ideal as you’d want, but then it allows you to follow your heart. So then we’ll get into the discussion. You could see how, you know, some libel moments will come up and like, Oh yeah.

So what I did in my life to get to that point. Was actually examined places where I thought I had no choice. So I got to this point in life. I’m like, I didn’t have a choice. Hey, here, here, here, take those and break them down. And I was so amazed to see that as I was breaking them down, my assumption that I had no choice was falling off every single time because I had not one choice.

I had many choices along the way. 

Mark: Yeah. And just to kind of extend what you’re saying, it means picking the hard thing, right? Like picking the thing that either causes pain or difficulty or discomfort or whatever. Um, so I mean, I guess that’s the same question in a different way, but [00:30:00] what do you think inspires people to pick the hard thing?

Cause I think that’s a superpower in of itself, you know, choosing difficulty. 

Constantin Morun: Absolutely. I mean, I can only look at myself because it’s the only person I didn’t know really well, I was trying away from picking the hard thing for a very long time and he had to go back to those limiting beliefs. We, we chat about it before.

So for example, because I had to fix myself growing up and I was afraid of making mistakes, Well, what happens when you take a chance? Well, you’re going to make mistakes, right? When you take the hard path, you’re going to make mistakes. So if you’re someone that’s adverse to doing that, someone that has low self confidence because of how you were raised and whatever trauma you have from being, being in a certain environment, you’re going to avoid taking those chances, right?

So to me, it comes back to, okay, look inwards first, see what’s preventing you from making the hard choice more often. And let’s remove that obstacle. So that’s limiting belief. And it’s still a new belief in that will allow you to now go [00:31:00] tackle the, the bigger challenges that life throws your way. 

Mark: I like that.

Right. It’s it’s so yeah, back to like being able to not just tolerate failure, but I think learn from it, right. And be excited by it and know, right. I mean, when I work, when I talk with my guys, I say like, yo, you should be failing, like. You know, 30 percent of the time, right? I mean, you still succeed a good amount, but if you’re not failing around 30, maybe 25 percent of the time, you’re not working hard enough, right?

You’re not in something that’s really, truly challenging you. You’re just kind of coasting, staying in the comfort zone, you know? 

Constantin Morun: Yeah. And as I look at failure these days, for me, it’s like an opportunity to learn, which I look at everything that happens in my life and in everyone’s life as a gift. Some have nicer wrapping paper than others.

While we leave all these gifts behind, all the things that happened in our life, and it’s up to us. Do we want to go back and unpack those gifts and see what lessons we’ve left behind? And there were many times in my life [00:32:00] when I felt like, It’s almost like I would run into the same scenario all the time because I wasn’t learning the lesson.

So I was doing the same actions, getting the same result. I wasn’t learning the lesson, so the same actions get the same result. It wasn’t until I unpacked whatever gift that was there, looked at it, and said, Okay, I understand now that I was able to make new choices now, take new steps, and not repeat the same mistake.

And the same thing happens, I would say, with Thoughts and feelings and emotions that we get. I’ll give you a good example where there have been many times in my life where I’ve done something that I felt ashamed of for whatever reason, and then what would happen is months later or years later, I would remember that and I would get almost that third person, you know, shameful, disgracing look on my face.

I’m like, Oh, I don’t want to think about that. It’s been, you know, it’s so, so negative and I feel so bad for doing that. And I only realized more recently that, wait a second, those things keep coming up because there’s a lesson there for me to learn and I haven’t learned it yet. And when I started [00:33:00] opening those up, accepting those emotions, those feelings coming up, and looking at the lesson, it’s like those things vanished, like they no longer take up space in my brain, they don’t come up every X month or X years, and that’s how I feel life is, it’s like, We have these opportunities to learn at every corner.

It’s up to us if we do or not. If it’s a mistake or not, it’s your definition. You can define it, right? Because some people, I’ve heard them these days, it’s like, like you said, you want to fail 25, 30 percent. Maybe it’s not failing. Maybe it’s falling down. Maybe it’s just, A stepping stone to whatever you want to go, right?

It’s your definition. Make whatever you want out of it. 

Mark: Yeah, you know, and to pivot to masculinity, I think that’s a very masculine trait, man, right? Like looking failure in the face, looking the dragon in the face, like opening the box like that takes an immense amount of courage. Right. I mean, those moments where you, me, man, everybody like where we went from and pretend like they don’t happen in my view, that’s, that’s cowardly.

Right. That’s not masculine. That’s just like bearing the lead. But what you’re [00:34:00] talking about is a very brave and courageous process of being like, Hey, what actually happened here? And more importantly, what can I learn from it to become better and move forward? So really Bravo on that. 

Constantin Morun: Yeah, and I think it’s actually such an important point, which is again, like the, the, the, the braveness, right?

At least me growing up and spending time in Canada and in my adult years, I thought that braveness is external, right? People fighting, uh, being a policeman, let’s say on the phone line or being, let’s say a soldier on the phone line. That’s brave, right? And it is brave. I’m not saying it’s not, but facing your own demons, facing your own emotions.

I mean, that’s got to count for something that’s actual, like you said, that’s braveness as well, because I don’t know, just looking external, giving your power away to everyone else feels easy because that’s the easy path because you’ve been doing it your life by looking inwards and seeing all those emotions and letting them come up and analyzing them and analyzing everything that happened.

That’s hard, and I know because I’ve been there myself. [00:35:00] 

Mark: Yeah, it is really hard. And I think it’s really brave. Like, because the guys that don’t do that, they spend so much of their lives faking it. Right. And that’s the fixed mindset. Right. So it’s not, it’s not earned, you know, like there are men, you know, and you have to be older because I think you just need life and time to do it.

Right. Older men that I know that have done this work, that it feels different, right. They have like gravitas, they have peace in their heart, they have calmness and they have power. Right. Yeah. Because they’ve done this work, they’re not like what I think a lot of people in definitely Western culture, probably in the world where they’re kind of just posers, right?

They’re, they’re, they’re playing as those guys, but they’re, they haven’t done the work to really earn it. 

Constantin Morun: Oh, I’ve done that before, right? It’s like, it’s like fake it till you make it type thing, but in a place where you shouldn’t fake it as much because you want to be working on those elements to really get beyond the step.

And I agree with you, Mark, everything you said there. And it’s, I see it in me because, for example, last year in April is when I had my big aha [00:36:00] moment, let’s call it even a spiritual awakening. I understood myself better. I went to this transformative journey. I was three weeks in Ecuador and did a few amazing excursions and retreats.

And anyway, I came back a new man, but of course no one else changed around me and that kind of sent me for a loop. And then I fell into depression. Now, it doesn’t mean I wasn’t necessarily depressed in the past, but this was the first time when I was very, very low. And I was doing exactly what you’re talking about, right?

I was trying to be brave on the outside to be like, no, nothing is wrong. I’m still joyful. Me, no problem. I’ll still go to work. I’ll still engage my partner and my parents. Of course I would draw from friends and family, but on the surface, I would make it appear as if it’s okay. And again, that’s the fixed mindset because I’m, I’m ashamed, but also I’m like, Oh, these are my problems.

I don’t want to bore the new mark with them. I don’t think anyone else is going to this. I don’t think anyone can help me. Right. So it’s also that mentality of like, as a man, you have [00:37:00] to do it all yourself. You have to figure it out all yourself. And I’ve come to realize that yes, you can, but you can also do it together with others.

And it’s so much easier and so much more enjoyable. Right. 

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot there. Um, I do want to talk more when we go back from the break about that spiritual awakening piece. Um, I think in my language, I call that initiation, right? Kind of like male initiation of like becoming a full adult and some people, you know, do it later in life.

Some people never do it. Right. So there’s, it’s not about like age. It’s like, but there’s something powerful there. Um, and about the burden, right? Because it’s something that I’m going through personally too, is, is I got far, right. I got far in my industry. I got far in my life, you know, Doing it by myself and I’m actually going through something right now where I’m realizing very humbly it sucks, but like I can’t go further by myself, right?

I need my fiance. I need my male friends. I need my community. I need like. Other people, you know, um, I didn’t care in the right way of the world, but at some point it gets too heavy. So I’m really invested in hearing, [00:38:00] um, your version of that too. So we’re going to move towards our final commercial break. Um, if you’re interested, like I am, hang on in there and we’ll see on the other side.

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Intro: You are listening to the Men’s Therapy Podcast with Mark Ale. To reach the show today, please call 1-888-346-NINE 1 4 1. That’s 1 8 8 8 3 4 6 91. Or send an email to podcast at men’s therapy.online or visit www dot men’s therapy podcast.com. Now back to the Men’s Therapy podcast. 

Mark: Welcome to the final segment of Men’s Therapy Podcast, Constantine, I just wanna dig right into your Ecuador story.

You know, we were talking a little bit about, um, male initiation. That’s just kind of my word in the, in the masculinity place of it, of like, kind of going from boy to man and [00:41:00] owning your power and connecting with spirit and going deep. Right. And having these kind of undeniable powerful experiences that I think a lot of men in our culture just don’t have a culture just doesn’t do it.

And it’s really, um, I think it’s really hurting boys. So I’ll get off my soapbox because I want to hear about you. What was, what was that? Like, like fill us in. 

Constantin Morun: Oh, that’s a good question. So yeah, of course, I would love to. I want to preface with a couple of things here. I grew up in a religious family, like most of Eastern Europe, but then as we moved to Canada, we didn’t practice as much and I was mostly agnostic during my education, 20s and early 30s as well.

But I always had an inclination to spirituality in a way in the sense that I felt like there’s a connection to something bigger out there that I had a purpose in this life. I remember even I was like maybe five or six asking a question like what’s my purpose on this planet. It has to be more than just go to school, get a degree, get a job, get a family and then die.

So I would ask myself that question all the time, but I would never go anywhere with it. Right. It’s just been in the back of [00:42:00] my mind and I’ll pass it over. Now during the pandemic. I woke up one day and I had this inclination that I need to explore this thing called ayahuasca, which is a plant medicine down in the Amazonian jungle.

And I’m someone that’s never been drunk, never used drugs. It’s not something for me. So I thought it was interesting. So I did a lot of research, hundreds of hours at a time, but then the pandemic hit. So I did, I put it on the shelf and I worked. A lot during the pandemic to enable customers and employees to be able to collaborate and work from home right through Microsoft Teams and whatnot.

And I would work 12 hour days for, what was it, almost three years. So it’s getting very burnt out. And I was not feeling as fulfilled as I should be feeling. I was joyful despite the American dream. So then I said, you know what, I’m going to take three weeks. I’m going to go to Ecuador on my own, leave everyone else behind, and just, it’s a journey for me.

Try to understand myself better, try to understand my place in this world a [00:43:00] bit better. And I didn’t know what to expect going in, I was a skeptic because I have a mathematics degree, as I mentioned, I have an analytical mind, but I’m like, you know what, I’m going to have an open mind. Let’s go see what happens.

And I was in this retreat for 12 days and from day one, before any plant medicine was even administered, I felt like never before, because the connection with the people, the connections with the land, the connection with everyone was so strong and you could feel the energies, you can feel how happy people were.

And I’m talking about people that were volunteering, that are working or the shamans or anyone else. And that, that got me really interested in how can people have so little? You’d be so happy. Right. And that’s kind of what the, what the journey started. 

Mark: Yeah. Well, keep going. 

Constantin Morun: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I went through five plant ceremonies in 12 days and it was transformation.

I mean, it wasn’t necessarily just my transformations and what I saw when I called it [00:44:00] to my heart self to my, my younger self, right. So to your inner child understood a bit more about my place in the world and the universe and God and your heart or whatever you want to call it. I also saw immense transformations in the people that came on this journey with me.

And you mentioned something important earlier, said it’s never too late and it’s not about age. Well, same thing here with these initiations, right? It was a split even between men and female, I mean, male and females. And there were ages between 18, I think the youngest and like 75, the oldest, right? So people really far up in age, they’re like, you know what?

I need to find myself. I need to understand myself better. And I’ve seen transformations from people quitting smoking overnight when they were addicted for, you know, three years to someone that could barely walk because she was, um, in ICU with COVID for like, let’s say she was like 10 days. I think 11 days died, almost died 3 times.

She was barely walking to playing soccer with us on the fields 5, 6 days later and [00:45:00] acting like, you know, she was 20 again and she was 50. Right? So like transformations that. If you pick someone off the street and told them, Hey, this is what happened. They’ll be like, you’re crazy. And I’ll be the same if you picked me off the street a few weeks before.

Right. And I’ve experienced this and I felt it and I’m like, wow. And more importantly, we talked about the superficial connections that we all have in our lives. I have friendships I made in Ecuador over a 12 day period, and in some cases only seven days, that are stronger than a lot of my other friendships still to this day.

People I talk to on a regular basis, weekly, monthly, we have video calls with each other. These are people from all over the world, America, Europe, Australia, Asia. And that’s what got me thinking a lot because I’m like, okay, so if I can do this, that if I can find myself, then how can I bring this back into my life here?

And when I came back from Ecuador, I was so full of life, right? I was almost like living in a dream. And then I realized, [00:46:00] like, you and I were talking during the commercial break, Marcus, that We changed on the inside, or at least we have a new perspective on the inside, but no one else did. So how do you balance the two?

How do you integrate everything that you’ve learned and bring it into your life? And that integration piece, if you ever do planned medicine, and it’s not for everyone, but if you do, know that integration is the most important aspect. And everyone talks about how important it is, but there’s very little information out there about this.

So do your due diligence, because if you don’t integrate properly, you’re gonna end up like me, where I spent seven, eight months in a depressive state and trying to figure it out on my own. And I did in the end, but it wasn’t easy. And I’m grateful for that time, that depressive state, because it allowed me more time on my own.

Myself to see what my emotions and you and I talked about this already, the idea of looking inwards. It allowed me more time to look inwards because we’re so distracted in today’s day and age that we don’t give ourselves any time to see it with our emotions, [00:47:00] our feelings, our thoughts. And I did a lot of that in the past and I still do it to some degree and I have to catch myself and say, you know what, I’m going to give myself a few minutes, an hour before bed, after I wake up to not be decided and be with myself.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot there. I want to talk more about integration. Right. Of, cause I think that’s. I think it’s critical, right? I mean, it’s a big part of what I do in my business. We do retreats, don’t do plant medicine, but we do powerful retreats and we have groups that meet afterwards indefinitely. So you can keep talking, keep it real.

Right. But I’m curious for you, like what, what is helpful with integration? Cause I think plant medicine is really popular. Psychedelics are, you know, it’s a wave that’s hitting, people are doing it. A lot of people are offering it, but yeah, they don’t have this, this piece, right? Like they don’t have the long term, the long tail that’s really required.

Constantin Morun: And even though the retreat I went to in Ecuador, Was amazing, amazing reviews, amazing people. And they emphasize how important integration was. They never spent a lot of time on helping us [00:48:00] figure out how to integrate. And I mentioned, I did hundreds of hours of research. By the time I went to Ecuador, it was in the thousands.

There’s not a lot of information about integration out there because it’s such a personal journey. But also because it’s so tough and I think people are starting to realize how important it is now and coming out of content, but at least a year and a half ago when I did it, there wasn’t a whole lot. And like you say, it doesn’t matter if you include primal medicine or not, it could be a meditation retreat, it could be a fasting retreat, whatever type of retreat you do, everything comes with integration, right?

Like you have experienced certain lessons in the journey, doesn’t matter what type of journey it was, how do you bring them back into your life? Because you don’t want to end up just chasing that experience all the time. And I met, unfortunately, a few people at the retreat and others in my life where you had this experience.

It was amazing. You’re in bliss, but then you come to the real world and realize it’s not as. Nice. And then you’re just chasing that feeling again. Right? So now six months later, you go back to another [00:49:00] retreat and six months later, you go back to another one and you don’t actually give yourself time to integrate.

And to me, to answer your question, what integration means, it’s essentially looking at everything you’ve experienced. If it’s an emotion, if it’s a feeling, if it’s a memory, if it’s anything that you’ve experienced and giving yourself time to process that. So I’ll give you an example from my experience. I, one of my, um, on my last journey.

For second to last one, I got to connect to my inner child and for those that are not familiar with the inner child is essentially the idea that we, as we go through life, as we go through our childhood, there are different traumas that we all experience. And what I consider trauma might be not trauma for you and vice versa, and those stick with us and those inner children essentially act on our behalf at the subconscious level and then do things for us, like, for example, react or respond to someone doing something that triggers us.

So I was really good at, for example, yelling. When [00:50:00] I felt attacked in my personal life without realizing, right? So let’s say Mark, you and I would interact and you would do something that triggers me without me even having a chance to think how to react. And that was an inner child of mine that was wounded and not healed that would do that.

Anyway, I connected to my inner child for the first time in my life. And it was my five year old self and all I remember was one big lesson out of it, which was, you know, I picked myself by the hand and I said, don’t let anyone tell you what to paint, paint from the heart, because I was drawing on a piece of paper and I kept hearing voices how people tell me, no, don’t draw that.

No, you’re not good at art. Don’t do it. Right. And sitting with that for months, it got me to paint. First, I took it very literally. I’m like, oh, I’ve never painted. Let me, you know, grab some tools and I started painting. Uh, you know, that was part of it. But then I started to see what it was, and I realized, wait a second, that’s talking a bit more metaphorically.

I don’t let people tell you how to lead your life. And up to that point, I was very good at doing it. As we talked earlier, right? I would look externally for [00:51:00] validation and I would always look at, Oh, tell me what school to go to tell me, you know, confirm what job I should be seeking or what path I should take in life.

So that’s what I mean by integration is like taking those lessons, whatever lessons they are and really see with them, allow the emotions to come up. Don’t judge the emotions. If it’s something painful, which I’ve had many of those, let them come up because my first reaction was something painful was to push it down.

And push it down and push it down. And I’m not saying I’ve integrated all of my lessons because there’s always unpacking more and more, but that’s how we see integration. 

Mark: Yeah. I love that you’re talking about that. You know, I think it’s so critical that people like you to talk to you about it, especially now, because with this wave hitting, it’s also really important to mention that like, this is new in our culture.

So, like, if you were living in Ecuadorian culture, right, and I was just part of your life, like, integration would be there because you’d have other people that have been through it. And you could talk about it and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But in Western culture, we don’t have that. So I think many people feel just like you did.

They feel really dropped. [00:52:00] They feel weird. They feel selfish. I mean, all of these kinds of, like, guilt and shame stuff can can come afterwards. So I really like that. You’re right. You know, building connection and saying like, Hey, integration has to be really intentional. You have to like work at it. It’s not just going to happen, right?

You’ve got to spend time digging and making meaning. 

Constantin Morun: Such a great point, Mark, because it has to be intentional. It’s not something that, and I made the mistake at the beginning, expecting it just because I did this tough thing. I did this, I had this experience and those were tough moments there in Ecuador, right?

It wasn’t just amazing experiences. There were tough parts to it. And even though I did those things, it doesn’t mean I’m going to change as a person. I have to put in the work after. And that’s the same thing. Let’s say, Mark, I come to you for some therapy. Like we can have the most amazing session. Yeah.

But if I don’t take any of it and apply it to my life and start making products, what’s going to happen? We’re going to keep going in the same circle, right? Like, we’re going to have amazing sessions. Nothing happens. Amazing sessions. And at one point, it’s going to fall off. 

Mark: Absolutely. [00:53:00] Absolutely. Well, there’s, you know, wrapping up, there’s a lot more to talk about, but Konstantin, if people want to find you, um, on the internet, if they want to learn more about you, where should they go?

Constantin Morun: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Mark, for the opportunity. So first off, if you want to talk to me, best ways to go to LinkedIn, Konstantin Bomorun, you can find me there or send me an email at Konstantin at UnleashThyself. com or you can find my podcast Unleash Thyself at UnleashThyself. com on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram.

I post a lot of content. The content is meant to inspire and empower you on this beautiful journey. So if you liked anything I talked about, I would invite you to check those out. 

Mark: Great. Check it out. I’ll put all your links in our show notes, um, so people can just click and go right to them and just kind of learn more about you and, and your, and what you offer in your journey.

Um, so yeah, thank you so much for being on the show. Um, looking forward to following your story and hearing more about you moving forward. Uh, so if you’re listening. Get to mention every podcast. If you feel like anyone needs to hear this, um, share it with them. Give us a five star review on Apple. Um, just spread the word.

I think a [00:54:00] lot of guys need as much of this as possible, quite frankly. Um, so yeah, Constantine, thanks for being so much on the show. Thank you so 

Constantin Morun: much, Mark. Thank you for listening. 

Mark: Okay, everybody. Take care. I’ll see you next week. Another episode of Men’s Therapy Podcast.

Intro: Thank you for joining your host Mark Ale on the Men’s Therapy Podcast. Be sure to tune in again live next Friday at 2:00 PM Eastern Time and 11:00 AM Pacific Time on the Voice America Empowerment Channel and Anywhere podcast are found. To support the show, leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.

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