The Return of the King w/ Alain Dumonceaux

The Return of the King w/ Alain Dumonceaux

February 14, 2024

On this episode we talk with Alain Dumonceaux, the Founder of the Awakened Man Movement. He uses the wisdom from story and myth along with his experience of competing in the Culinary Olympics to help guys begin their own personal hero’s journey. Tune in to hear how to embrace your Inner King and start taking back your life.

Episode Transcript:

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[Music] Mark azoulay is an industry leader in

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Psycho therapy and men’s mental health he’s helped countless guys get back on their feet deepen their relationships

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and Excel in their lives now he’s taken all that he has learned and is sharing it with you in each episode Mark will

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interview an expert in the field of masculinity and men’s work we’ll cover topics such as emotional intelligence

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masculine identity anger management Financial Health trauma recovery marriage and divorce ethics and

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spirituality tune in and become a better man welcome back to the show I’m your

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host markaz Bay and I’m here with Alan dumo he runs the awakened uh man which

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you can be found at the awaken

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man.now um Alan I’m always love talking to more Men’s Work people um I’m really excited to learn about you because your

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story is very non-traditional You Came From The Culinary and cooking world um and then found this work versus a lot of

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us that come from therapy or coaching or you know self-help to begin with um so

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welcome to the show can’t wait to hear your story hey Mark thank you so much for having me on the show yeah it’s a bit of a different a different different

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Journey for me you know I grew up watching guys on TV cooking guys on TV like gram care from The Galloping

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Gourmet and and I was fortunate enough and really early in my career to be participating in with a gentleman who

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was a really a longtime mentor of mine who was participated in the world culinary Olympics now you got to think

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about this this is in the mid 80s early 90s when I was doing this there was no food TV Bobby fle you know Iron Chef

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stuff so it wasn’t really cool to be a chef so to speak because that stuff hadn’t existed but I found myself in

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this in this Arena of such great and amazing talent and I found out really

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quickly about just how much I had to struggle with overcoming the impostor syndrome to being in and surrounded with

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a group of guys and I think that’s really what started my journey because not only was it was I embedded in that

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but I had also just started a young family and we had you know purchased a home and things were starting to move

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forward with us and lo and behold after coming home soon after the culinary Olympics there in in the early 90s that

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my whole life fell apart ended up by getting divorced and claiming bankruptcy

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and losing everything and I found myself in this place that I never thought that I would ever be and I think for a lot of

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guys you know we have these ideas of the where our lives will ultimately end up and we forget about all the other

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aspects of Our Lives that we still need to pay attention to and so when life does throw us that kind of curveball it

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can be really hard for us to recover and I found that that you know back in the early 90s like I said all that work

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really started for me and working on who I was as a man and how I could discover what it truly meant to be masculine yeah

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that’s a powerful story I want to dive into some of the details of it I’m curious like if you could if you want to

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share what led to the downfall like was it too much of one thing or a lack of something else or you know an outdated

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model of masculinity what what were you missing yeah that’s a great question Mark I think for me and I think it’s

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probably true for lots of guys is that we have this idea that we need to be the bread winner you know it’s that idea of

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preside reside and protect right well this this providing piece when we focus all of our energy and I focus all of my

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energy on on bringing home the bacon so to speak and and really focused on my

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career and everything was was career-driven and I can remember making comments to to my ex-wife and by the way

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she was my high school sweetheart at the time uh and saying to her you know you will always be number two and think

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about a man saying that to somebody that he says that he loves and there were so

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many instances in my life where the values that I said that I had that I valued family that I valued being in

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relationship the truth of it is that my actions weren’t aligning at all with what was with what I said I believed and

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I what I valued and so when that came to fruition and ultimately just she said

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that was enough and the marriage ended I had to really take a long hard look in the mirror and and really wrestle with

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who I felt I was what this identity this Persona that I had portrayed and what

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was the actual what was actually happening in front of me and it’s a tough pill to swallow I can tell you that absolutely and I think one that a

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lot of men like you said they find themselves in these places you know I think a lot of men come to men’s work

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with the story similar to yours a divorce or you know an addiction a binge a near-death experience right it’s

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usually something like really intense that has to smack us over the head to be like oh wow there might be something

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more out there you know and and when I hear your story it’s you know a lot of men I think we cosplay or we lar

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masculinity right we we try to we try to pretend that we know what it is but we don’t do that inner work and I think

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when it all falls apart like you said it’s an opening for that kind of stuff yeah totally is and I think it’s it’s

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unfortunate but we you know for a lot of us guys we need the 2×4 you know treatment before we’ll finally wake up

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and there’s there were always instances along the p on our path that where we’re being nudged and things are happening

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but because we take so many things for granted and I think that’s the other lesson that I learned in my life is that

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when we take different parts of our lives for granted like family like relationship our health another big part

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right we wait till the to the last minute to actually go see a doctor to do anything about ourselves and and when

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that happens you know at times it could be too late for that relationship it could be too late unfortunately for a

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health health situation and it’s a lot of work to recover and so when we can be more

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conscious and step forward and that’s why my work here with the awaken man was really about being how can we take

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purposeful action every day because if we can do that then we can stay more present be in the moment today as

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opposed to thinking about maybe worrying about what’s happening in the future what has transpired in the past and so

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the more that we can stay grounded with exactly what’s in front of us today and what can I do today to take a step

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forward and our lives are going to start to transform yeah I like that idea of purposeful action I know it’s a big part

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of the way that you practice and try to you know instill that other guys and really do that right on your website you

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mention two authors which I love you talk about Jack Donovan you talk about markcus aelius um in a book list that

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you offer to you know some of your members and fans and both of them talk about discipline right in their own in

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their own way um and this idea of purposeful action and just like chipping away and keeping a pace right a

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marathoners pace versus a Sprint Pace yeah I completely agree and I think that’s the key right and what I really

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like about Marcus’s work is that he really talks really wants to dive into

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about understanding as deeply as we can about the things that I can be in control of and what I truly can’t be in

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control of and as long as I can I can stay in that framework I I can have more power I can

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reclaim more power and then I can also then step forward and be more assertive and take action that really means

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something towards a goal that I’m striving for or something that we’re that’s striving for in a larger sense in

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terms of family or community and I think that’s what I really like about that about Marcus’s work is that he’s really

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makes he really ha was asking himself through his whole life was what can he

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what is he really in control of and and how can he take purposeful action yeah

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absolutely right and this idea of letting things go that are not you know it’s I studied Buddhism for three years

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uh extensively and there’s so much similarities between you know his meditations book and Buddhist practice

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um but I want to put a little bit so I’m curious right back to your story you hit this Rock Bottom moment right bankruptcy

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divorce sucks how do you start moving forward again I mean how do you start moving forward from Ground

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Zero yeah I think that you know that’s a great question Mark and you you just need to start by taking one step forward

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and for me the step forward was a friend of mine passed me a set of uh nighting

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Gale Conan tapes by J it was a set series by Jack Canfield and this and the series was called self-esteem and Peak

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Performance and I recognize very quickly that because I was dealing with this impostor syndrome that it was a matter

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of low self-esteem and I think when you can start to name the challenge that you’re having then we can start to tame

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that because when we when we leave it Ambi ambiguous in our minds it can be something so large and I think Jordan

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Peterson talks about that Dragon right and going in and and dealing with that Dragon before it comes and deals with

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you and and I found that that was the first step was really working on who I was and what what it really mean meant

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for me to be successful and not in just in business but in my personal life

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whatever say a successful relationship look like and that’s that was the start of the Catalyst and from there it really

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it really I really asked myself what are the things that I truly value what are the limiting beliefs around that how am

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I aligning my actions with with everything that I say am I actually walking the talk and when I started to

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do that work then I recognized just how out of alignment in lots of aspects of Our Lives and it’s I think it’s true if

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if we do that analysis it’s true for a lot of us that that is that’s what we will find as well I agree completely

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right and I think the classic masculinity is so limited right it talks about just what you said like money and

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then maybe physical fitness right like that’s it right you have to be ripped and you have to be rich and that’s what makes you a man um I’m curious like what

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were some of the values that you were out of alignment with or what are some of the values that you expanded into you know what did you have to kind of pick

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up the sword and start working towards yeah a lot of the values that I had were

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about recognition ego things right attaining the next level in business attaining notoriety for doing good work

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and I found that that was that was stemming from my childhood and where my father I’m the oldest of five and he had

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to work really hard to you know keep us all going and I can remember many many days where it was really tough at our

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home and so I fought hard to try to get some recognition get my dad to recognize me and I didn’t realize it until my

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family started to fall apart like my marriage and all and and that and how I was thinking that I truly value life or

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my family but what I was really valuing was the recognition of notoriety and

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that’s what I was getting for a while from my ex-wife I was on this pedestal with her and when that pedestal came

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down I had nowhere to go but to fall and I think when we re we can recognize that

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those how we what we think our values are that are driving us and how we’re actually showing up are probably not are

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not what are we truly feel deeply inside and it takes lots of work with that I find that my values have continued to

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evolve and change today they’re much more about you know much more about interior how do I how am I feeling about

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this uh certain situation is this what I truly want to do if there’s a decision in business how does that how does that

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sit with me is this am I doing this out of out of a position of of care and respect and and love or am I doing this

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from a position of I need in wanting to achieve that next rung on the ladder and

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not that there’s anything wrong with that but if it’s the only reason to do something you may want to take a second

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look at that yeah I I agree right if that’s the only reason often the motivation runs out before you can

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complete it because it’s not coming from that inner fire you know some of the things I help my guid with is developing

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an honor code you developing that set of values in ethic um for some people it’s spirituality right if they want to go

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there or not um I’m curious what what yours are you know I’ve always Ted with Jack Donovan’s you know strength courage

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Mastery and honor um and I’m wondering if you have a set of an honor code or an ethic or even spirituality that you’d

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like to share with our listeners today yeah absolutely I think one of the things that we that we look at I ask all

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our guys to do because I did it myself was really do an Integrity check in and I call it an Integrity Challenge and

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what we look as we look at these different pillars you look at our financial or emotional our physical our

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spiritual professional relationships and what this does is really gives us a a bit of a road map to see where we’re

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weak in what are we not spending enough time and and understanding and then from there we can start to work on programs

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and that’s why the group program is great because you can have peers that are in the same place and the one-on-one

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is is excellent because now we can really dive deeper into it and then from there we work on a set of uh 12 virtues

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for that we run and I really like the idea of Ben Franklin and his characteristics and how he worked at

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wanting to make sure he mastered each one of these so we follow a similar format so this month the month being

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February or virtue of the month is being vulnerable vulnerability how can we do that how can we be show up and be more

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vulnerable so I’m I’m asking the guys to step forward and can you tell somebody

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that you disagree with them in with a situation or a belief and still give

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them that space so that they can still exist but for yourself as well instead of be instead of being that people

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pleaser because we tend to be that as guys and that may be a difficult conversation especially if it’s with

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somebody that you truly care about a spouse a partner you know a son uh a really close friend and so we work at

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these different values these different virtues I call them to give us a sense of how we can become more whole as men

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in general yeah I love that you Ed conflict as an example for vulnerability

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right because I think a lot of men are turned off by that world word vulnerability that think it’s like oh I have to be soft or I have to be a

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complain right I have to be a victim or I have to talk about how hard my life is and that’s being vulnerable but I I yeah

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I just love that you came in from that angle because a lot of dudes are nice guys right I think especially in my

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generation in Mendel generation and certainly in gen Z the younger Generations like we don’t want to be

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Predators we don’t want to be hurtful to women specifically um and we don’t really vocalize our needs and it’s kind

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of a newer phenomenon at least I’ve seen um so there’s this idea of yeah stepping

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into conflict saying hey I don’t like that or you know what I’ve I’ve been sucking it up for 10 years in some guys

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cases and I’m not going to suck it up anymore and we got to work on it yeah I completely agree and see that to me the

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reason why that I think that is important for us to do is that we’re very uncomfortable uh I I came you know

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I’m 57 you know the this the recording of this and so the era that I came from

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the M the Mantra was children to be seen and not heard and unfortunately I carried that forward for far too many

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years and so it was it was scary to step forward and actually say something that

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you believe and you know and I’m sure you’re well aware of the the different levels of intimacy and really what I’m

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challenging guys to be is really to get to that third and fourth level where we can give a personal opinion we can share

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our feelings and our experiences about different things in life and know that it’s okay that we’re going to be okay

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when we do that maybe somebody doesn’t receive it great but guess what we’re still going to be okay it’s not going to

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be a disaster but when we don’t even practice and lean into it and we never really truly evolve and find out about

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those dark parts of our lives that that we’re so afraid of absolutely yeah when I think about vulnerability so you know

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a lot of my guys come to therapy right and they’re like you know I heard online I watched a Tik Tok and Instagram that

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like you got to be vulnerable with your girlfriend and then she can you can get her do to do what you want her to do

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right like as long as you’re vulnerable that’s what they want and you can give them that and I’m like like brother that’s not vulnerability that’s like

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persuasion and that’s manipulation you know and the definition that I use and I’m curious what you think about this is

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a vulnerable conversation is one where you don’t know where it’s going to go right you’re just kind of putting something out there that is scary that

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is weird that you’ve been maybe lying about for a long time that you’ve been concealing or or omitting and you don’t

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know what’s going to happen versus trying to like massage it into a particular outcome yeah I completely

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agree with that and we actually got into this conversation last night last night was our men night and we talked about

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being as we were talking about vulnerability we talked to one of the guys said that you know he’s really working hard in his relationships he

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wants to be able to share his feelings with his with his partner and two of the

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guys stepped forward and said yeah you know what I did that a long time ago but what I found is that’s even though the

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women in my Our Lives want us to say they say they want us to do that that’s not really what they want and so there

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was a bit of this this tension in the room now because here’s a guy thinking that and leaning into it hey I’m sharing

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my feelings I’m sharing you know how I feel about stuff and there was this great debate going on about how we do

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that and the and the wisdom behind sh how we share that how we share that

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feelings about what how we feel about something but not being this real soft

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guy but being able to have some some some backbone within that and it was interesting to see the dynamic of that

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conversation because I think there’s a lot of validity in that and how we actually show up and share our emot

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share our feelings and our emotions versus just being a uh you know trying to lean too much into our feminine

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Essence I think that’s true I think it’s a huge topic and it’s like tone of voice is is big and kind of what we’re asking

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for our partners is Big right I mean we’ll talk more in our next segment but this idea that you know women want a man

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and they don’t want a son right and I think when it moves into you being like a child um not you obviously but the you

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know the The Listener right being being a being like a child then they get kind of pushed away um but yeah we we’ll dig

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more into that uh when we come back for our next commercial break um Alan great segment so far and listeners will’ll see

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www.men theapy podcast.com now back to the men’s therapy

20:31

podcast welcome back to the show I’m here with Alan d dumo who is the owner

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and founder of the awakened man um he’s a coach he’s a mentor he’s a men’s work expert and he talks about the hero’s

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journey um Alan one of the things that I loved about your website and your branding um you mentioned this idea of

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the Return of the King and we talked a little before I’m a huge fantasy nerd I play dungeon dragons growing up video

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games all that kind of stuff so any kind kind of token reference I’m all about but I think there is something really

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needed in that idea of King energy and when we last left our listeners we were talking about how to be vulnerable but

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not be weak right or not be a victim um and that is that’s a tough line to walk

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so I’m curious uh I guess one how do you connect those two vulnerability and King energy and and maybe broader what does

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the Return of the King mean to you and the guys that you work with yeah absolutely great questions there I think

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the big thing about being able to m to walk that line between being vulnerable yet having strength behind it is truly

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having you know again we’ll go back to Marcus aurelus and talking about really being in control of what we can control

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and we can control how our emotions show up and so as we dive into and start

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doing this work we’re going to recognize you know for me I found very very quickly that emotion shows up in my body

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first before I was able before I was actually coming uh coming forward and in man manifesting in the world and so the

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moment that I could recognize that you know when I’m excited I get this little tingling going on in my stomach when I

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get upset or or angry then then I have this pressure on my in my in my body and

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the so the moment that we can recognize that then we can start to get into control about how we want to be how we

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want to express the things we need to and so that’s where we can really lean into we can start talking about things

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that are important to us and being more vulnerable about the things that are that of that are of value for us when we

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can have that take that breath and that was kind the work that I used to do for

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myself and and even to this day at some point is that if I find myself not in control of that emotional state then

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it’s time for me to take a bit of a break to come back and reassess and so you know thankfully with my wife today

22:47

that we have built this this framework around where she can recognize that I

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may need a bit of a break before continuing on in a conversation and being able to to have that and build

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that up in a relationship really helps you as guys because we’re not good at practicing this to get better at it and

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then we can become even more vulnerable by really sharing some of the things that are truly deep within our heart

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that are important to us and so that she understands how she can be in our relationship and support that

23:19

Journey yeah I think that’s really well said right because I think as men we do have that Predator aspect in us right I

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mean like the human male is the apex predator planet Earth we’ve dominated the entire planet and we do have that

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hunt and kill thing so I think part of being a monor man at least to my definition is not getting rid of that or

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demonizing that which I think some authors certainly talk about but it’s it’s harnessing that and and honoring

23:44

that right so like we might be in a fight in a emotional verbal fight and that hunter killer thing is going to

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come out so I I think like taking a step back processing it um evolving it in a

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way to be like okay I really do care about this but I’m not going to like say or do or God forbid hit somebody right

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I’m going to try to like Channel this um energy and intensity towards making a meaningful change in my life yeah

24:07

absolutely and I think there’s lots of different ways that we can do that right some you know some folks are you know

24:12

use the tapping methods others use anchoring methods do whatever it is that works for you that helps it I’m more of

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an of an anchoring piece so I know when I’m having high emotional state that uh

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and I can feel that in my body for me to get to to myself gives me that reminder

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of okay settle down there it’s kind of like a a father piece right now that

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really to me is part of what I talk about really about this King energy and how we can show up the king energy to me

24:41

is that is that energy that comes in and keeps things in Balance it’s keeping the

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rest of the things in place the rest of the archetypes all into alignment because without that that Figure Head

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that piece that helps moderate everything we can become we can become out of control really quickly and so I

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think it’s important that we create these mechanisms and we build these ways to help us these habits that help us

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move from states of where we’re feeling out of control where we can come back into alignment and then we can have some

25:13

purposeful action yeah I mentioned you we inspired by Robert Moore’s book king warrior

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magician lover which is a you know classic men’s text um listeners I would encourage you really to read that book

25:24

is phenomenal and what he talks about in the um the king chapter right is that there are two Shadow Kings one being

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kind of the victim nice guy you know weak person right that kind of gets walked all over but the other one also

25:37

being a tyrant you know going too much right and and being too commanding and too domineering um so I I wonder for you

25:45

and for the guys you work with how do you find that balance between you know being frankly spineless and being you

25:51

know overbearing and dominating yeah I think and you’re absolutely right we come the the energy

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is really made up of three different pieces right and what we’re trying to do is is get that into alignment where we

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can be in the in its fullness and when we’re coming from a place of where we’re more of the weakling that aspect of

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where we’re always caving and and that was me earlier on in my second marriage very much so this just more of a doormat

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and one of the things that I I always challenge my guys in is that if you’re going to use the L use this as a as a

26:22

cop out and this meaning am I going to die on this hill you know or will this me what will how will this matter in a

26:28

year from now those are those are really dangerous places to be in because what

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you’re doing is saying is that you have nothing that you’re willing to stand for

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and so to Pivot from that let’s go to the other side of the equation so the Tyrant would just push his values

26:47

beliefs and systems on somebody else all the time and so when you recognize it you’re not allowing somebody else to

26:53

ever have a say or not ever allowing anybody else to have input into your life then you’re at that other end of

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the spectrum so how do we work from both ends we work from it by being aware number one of what how we are actually

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showing up with that energy and what can it take what can we do to move forward so the weakling needs to be able to

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learn to stand up and have and be vulnerable and say something that is important on their heart and they need

27:18

they’ll have to practice that and preface it I would recommend not taking the most critical thing to discuss with

27:24

your partner or somebody you want to discuss this with being taking something that’s not going to be that much of a

27:30

challenge but still a bit of a challenge for you and then on the other side just instead of talking all the time maybe

27:37

just listen a little bit more and ask a question or two versus wanting to say

27:42

something and I thinking when we start to practice this these different put these different practices into play

27:47

you’ll find that you’re come into more into control over the situation and you’ll get a lot further in life because

27:55

you’re more willing to be open and receiving different information yeah I I like that I like

28:01

that it has very practical advice and I think guys can from either end Spectrum work towards the middle and it’s always

28:08

wild for me and maybe you know send some similarity here when I work with guys and they say like I don’t know what I

28:14

believe or maybe even more commonly they’re like I’m really good at being a chameleon I’m really good at being a people pleaser or giving somebody

28:20

exactly what they need so I can get what I want but when you talked about idea of having nothing to stand for you know you

28:26

talked earli about impost I think those are the same thing right I think as men we can feel like imposters when we don’t

28:32

have that Banner to fight under right or that family crest to defend or that ethic or Honor Code that we hold with us

28:39

I’m curious if you see that in your work as well yeah absolutely I see that and we actually had that very same thing

28:45

came up about talking about being a chameleon one of the one of the gentlemen talked about that about being

28:51

in his relationships throughout his life was that he was always a chameleon and then I think when he was saying that

28:56

yeah a lot of us myself included we would we do that we blend in and part of that is because we come from a position

29:04

of of having this impostor syndrome we don’t know what we stand for we don’t know what we truly value and believe and

29:10

when we come from that position just about anything’s okay and you’re willing to go with the wind but what you find is

29:18

this have this emptiness inside and it’s and that’s where we get this idea and this masking of all this pain and

29:25

resentment and it builds up and then ultimately what does it show up for how does it show up for Men shows up as

29:30

anger and when it comes up it’s because we haven’t really done this deep work

29:36

that we need to do to really recognize that we have things that we that are important to us and if we spend some

29:42

time doing that exercise then we can recognize when we’re when something’s happening and why we’re having an

29:48

emotional reaction to it yeah I just want to underline that you know another great classic men’s writer Robert blind

29:55

his book iron John talks about this right and he talks about how you know the the old and toxic vers of

30:01

masculinity is you’re out there and you’re getting stabbed a thousand times by Spears and you’re like look how tough

30:06

I am I can get stabbed all these times and I don’t even feel it and I think a lot of guys feel that I know I felt that of like yeah I’ll take that I’ll take

30:13

the spear I’ll take the arrow I’ll get hurt don’t worry I’m a tough guy right

30:18

but what he says is the first step and there’s you know more after that but the first step is picking up the shield and saying no don’t stab me stop stabbing me

30:26

that is a first kind of masculine act and then you get the sword and then you get the horse that’s a whole another thing but the idea of of setting that

30:33

boundary and saying no instead of taking it I think everyone men need to hear that you know because I I know I was

30:40

taught just to take it and it sounds like you got similar messaging of just like you know eat all those sandwiches just take your lumps just

30:46

swallow it and that’s what makes you tough you know yeah absolutely you know and it was the you know there was lots

30:52

of for me and my upbringing there was also lots of Shame put in around stuff and so Shame about how the my mother

30:59

might feel my shame around how it might make the family look and so when you get

31:05

put when you get raised in these in these environments and you don’t know any better then you’re going to struggle

31:11

you’re going to struggle because those old tapes keep playing and the challenge with that is that we never truly get an

31:17

opportunity to evolve because we’re we’re so programmed from these old tapes

31:23

and that’s why I think it’s so hard for guys to and it almost takes a a catastrophic event so to speak in order

31:29

for them to finally wake up and recognize that why is my life the way it

31:35

is and I think when we start to do recognize that we can start to take some different action you know reaching out

31:41

you know doing work for with yourself or joining a men’s group there’s so much opportunity today that has never existed

31:47

in the past and so there’s really no reason why guys need to struggle anymore by themselves this idea of Lone Wolf

31:53

syndrome just needs to really needs to go to the Wayside and start joining brothers in arms and move forward as a

31:59

as a community yeah say more about that right I know you run the group coaching the Band of Brothers I’m curious like

32:06

what you’ve seen as the power of male Community because I I’m very much in alignment with what you’re talking about

32:11

yeah I find that when there’s uh you know even last night as we were get into conversations about different things and

32:17

we start to unpack stuff you can see that the lights are starting to get

32:22

brighter in some guys eyes the the mechanism is starting to change they’re recognizing in a pattern in what

32:28

somebody else is saying in themselves and that doesn’t happen when you’re by yourself because guess what the same

32:34

patterns have been playing playing in your mind for as long as you’ve been on this planet and so it becomes a really

32:40

boring tape it becomes the same episode it’s groundhog day but when you hear a

32:46

perspective slightly different from somebody else you can now import you know insert yourself into that and go

32:52

yeah I recognize that and this happens in this scenario for me and it happens in this scenario scario and now this

32:58

conversation really starts to get Dynamic and guys start to really lean into growing and changing as men yeah I

33:06

think guys need Community you know I mean so much of male culture was in

33:11

groups right whether it be the hunting party or the you know military squad or the work team or all that stuff right

33:18

and and now with remote work and technology has been really good in a lot of ways but I think it’s isolated a lot of men you know there’s this like

33:24

powerful stat that I want to share with our listeners um saying that 39% of men report

33:30

experiencing loneliness every single day and one in three men report that if they

33:35

were in an emergency nobody would help them right that’s crazy that’s crazy

33:41

nobody would help them um so yeah I’m all for community and building connections because I think as men we we

33:46

work better as a unit that’s what we’ve kind of been designed to do absolutely you think about how the how everything

33:54

things have been the greatest things that have ever been created in this world has been created through group and through group participation

34:01

yes there may have been a single mind that’s started at the Catalyst and the idea but it takes a group of people to

34:07

come together group of men most of the time to come together and put all their energies to together their skills their

34:14

expertise the experience and really grow and I always say with our group is that

34:20

we’re always looking to have you know three everyone needs three mentors in their life we need a mentor who’s been a

34:26

little bit further down the path and we are someone that we can you know lean into and and get advice from we also

34:32

need mentors that are on the same at the same placees us that mentee that or that Mentor person that can go with us and

34:39

help us and we can have that conversation and that’s really what the group program helps to and then we all need mentees somebody that we can help

34:45

bring along we can be that Mentor too and when and that’s what I really like about the group program is that those

34:51

three exist simultaneously and in any given time moment you could be in anyone

34:56

one of those three roles and when that happens man the power that in that group just is phenomenal it’s phenomenal you

35:04

know and I think it it expands the definition expands with the wrong word but I think it brings in the fatherhood

35:09

and paternal piece that I think is missing from the modern definition of masculinity or the current definition of

35:15

masculinity that like we do have a nurturing side it’s different than feminine nurturing but the idea of being

35:21

a mentor being a leader being a dad is so critical to the male experience and

35:27

I’m really glad that that’s starting to get talked about more because I feel like it’s it’s not you know again with this Lone Wolf thing where we’re trained

35:33

not to feel that paternal Instinct that that we have you know yeah absolutely and I I like that you’re bringing it up

35:40

you know this this nurturing aspect of it and for men how that shows up is it shows up as as a what I call it as a

35:49

personal accountability right in terms of uh what we want to bring forward as to our groups and so the key about that

35:56

is being able to not be judgmental but still having that compassion towards

36:02

that individual and really being help helping them be accountable for what they’re to do and that’s a different

36:07

framework and say that from the feminine aspect yeah and I think a lot of men are

36:12

over feminized and they actually spit out femin nurturance because it’s not attuned to them you know um I think

36:18

we’re saying the similar thing the way I kind of talk about my guys with it is it’s the idea of as a male you know

36:24

nurturer you set the challenge and you coach the person to get there right and you and you kind of are always pushing

36:31

that right level of challenge where it’s not going to overwhelm them but it’s also not patronizing it’s not too easy

36:36

and then you’re right there you’re you’re coaching them every step of the way to get there and overcome the challenge um whereas I think more fem nurturance is kind of unconditional love

36:43

unconditional acceptance you know oh poor you everything is fine you’re going to be okay which I think a lot of guys

36:48

we actually don’t want like we want to get better we want to build skills in our lives absolutely and the challenge

36:55

with that is that you know we we have a what I see that show up is when guys have had a hard time separating they’re

37:02

really divorcing themselves from the mother aspect that that Invisible Presence that still resides and that’s

37:08

why you talked about wives don’t want or spouses don’t want a son they want a partner they want an equal someone that

37:14

they can that they can go in in life with but when we become that sun aspect and that’s how we’re showing up it’s

37:19

really because we haven’t separated well from our mother yeah I I agree completely um conversation going by

37:26

really fast we’re going to move into our final segment where we’re going to talk directly to listeners and we’re going to

37:31

you know talk to guys about who want to take a first step along this path of becoming a modern man and an evolved man and an awakened man um so I’m sure you

37:38

have tons of tips and tricks and practices that they can do to get started today um so if you’re listening

37:44

and you want to take a step hang on in there and we’ll see you on the other side voice America is on LinkedIn

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connect with us today men’s therapy online is now accepting new members men’s therapy

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and [Music]

39:44

wellness you are listening to the men’s therapy podcast with Mark aalay to reach

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the show today please call 866472 5791 that’s 866 472

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5791 or send an email through podcast at Men’s therapy. online or visit

40:04

www.men therapy podcast.com now back to the men’s therapy

40:10

podcast welcome back to the show in this segment we talk directly to you the listener and give you some steps that

40:16

you can take if you want to become an awakened man so Alan you were talking about this values assessment um taking

40:23

kind of like a hard cold look at who you are right what you actually value and then evolving it and changing it to what

40:29

you want to Value um so how could you walk somebody that’s listening through that right now absolutely so one of the

40:36

practices that we do after going through some of uh some of the the king warrior

40:41

lover energy since piece we start to now dive into into what what do we say that we truly value and so the assessment

40:47

that we use is I have a sheet that they that they’ll look at it’s about a 100 different adjectives different ways they

40:53

can describe themselves what I ask them to do is there’s five different P create five different columns and within each

40:58

one put half a dozen or so words that resonate to you at the completion of that then then I’d like them to do is

41:06

distill what each of those columns into one word it could be a word that already exists in there maybe something else

41:11

that comes out of that and then they also now the UND ultimately have is these five different adjectives of

41:17

things that that’s that they lean into that they that they feel is what they

41:23

truly value as somebody as a man and then what I asked them to do is to write out three or four statements that ENC

41:30

capsules those words once that’s complete then they’ll have an idea now of what is something that they how what

41:37

they truly value overall in life and so the reason I’m asked them to do this as a more of a broad piece as opposed to

41:43

looking at what do I value through things like in our integrity challenge is to me it’s really about who you are

41:51

as as a man is most important and so once they’ve created that statement now the next part of this that’s the first

41:58

half the second half is how are you in alignment in today if this is what you

42:04

say that you you value as who you are as an individual where are you showing up in life where you’re in alignment with

42:10

that statement and where are you showing up in life where you’re out of alignment and that becomes a really challenging

42:17

task for lots of guys because now it’s the first time for many of them they they’ve really dived into looking at oh

42:23

I didn’t realize I wasn’t showing up that way in in different aspects and so now we

42:29

now we sink in the this Integrity challenge so how are you in alignment then with how you value yourself as an

42:36

individual in your financial aspect of your life in your emotional aspect in your physical spiritual professional and

42:43

a relationship and pretty soon we get this picture of they get they get a picture of exactly how they’re showing

42:50

up and for the most part I find that we have a pretty fair balance between that

42:55

we’re not too terribly bad some guys are more critical of themselves but if you’re truly honest with yourself and

43:01

you’re in doing this assessment you’ll see that there’s areas that you can work on and that’s really the foundation that we start to build upon reclaiming our

43:09

power our passion and our purpose as men yeah I think that’s really well said um

43:15

got two comments so I’ll say one then pause and give the other one I the first one to go back to our buddy Marcus AR is

43:20

right he has this great line which is the soil doesn’t lie you know he’s talking about um gardening and physical

43:27

work and this idea of that all men should find something where it can’t lie back right either you you know dig the

43:33

the the ho or you didn’t right either the thing grew or it didn’t and when you talk about this brutal honest feedback I

43:39

think it’s critical I think men even though we might be afraid of it I think we deeply crave it we deeply crave like

43:47

data right like honest data about ourselves that we can then act on so I I

43:52

like that your activity really encourages that yeah and and I

43:57

completely agree with you I think we’ve had enough we had enough tiptoeing around stuff in especially today’s world

44:04

where everyone is easily offended and I think it’s important for us to recognize that the only person we’re going to

44:11

offend doing this exercises ourselves and if we’re allowing ourselves to truly be vulnerable with our with our self and

44:18

look at it and get real facts real data and if you want to take it even further

44:23

you know you can even you know after you’ve done that work you can ask some people now truly practice being

44:29

vulnerable and ask people about hey how this is what I said that I this is my value statement what do you think about

44:36

that when you when I say that to you what does that say what do you think about me and how I’m showing up do I

44:41

show up like that for you and be be prepared that you may not always be that

44:46

person and that’s okay because it gives opportunity for us to really get some hard data and do the work that needs to

44:53

be done because that’s what the world needs today we tired of having people always being offended because then guess

44:59

what nobody wants to do anything because we’re too afraid we have to stop being afraid and start leaning into our lives

45:05

exactly we’re too afraid of being judged and we’re too afraid of being canceled and we’re too afraid of like being fired right and just another pitch for you

45:11

know group programs like the one you run it’s having a council of men that’s trusted and that’s established that

45:16

we’re all working together for the betterment of each other right when you get that tough feedback you know it’s

45:21

coming from a place of love and care it’s not bullying it’s not hazing it’s not you know canceling right it’s like

45:28

hey you said you want to be this man you’re not this man and like you know we talking before and how can I help you become that man right ABS absolutely and

45:36

there’s there’s a Hindu saying that says you you know when you try help somebody else’s your brothers Bo get a Shore

45:42

yours gets across the river so does yours go along and I know I’ve butchered it a bit there but the idea of it is

45:48

that when we help each other we go much further in life and so that’s really the you know the power in group programs and

45:55

why it’s so important that guys to find something for them to help them move through this season or this phase in

46:00

their life yeah yeah the other idea I wanted to kind of throw past to with the Val exercise that I also like is you

46:07

know I think as a man is first starting this journey and putting his life together we’re often choosing between two bad decisions right lerve two evils

46:14

and and I think the values can really help with that of okay if I’m going to sacrifice one thing what am I going to

46:19

sacrifice right but as we get more successful it’s the opposite we often choosing between two good decisions you

46:25

know and it’s like okay I only have limited time energy and resources what am I going to commit to and I think it’s

46:30

I think the values really can act as um a compass which I know you talk about in those tough ethical decisions because

46:37

it’s very rarely a good choice and a bad choice right if it’s a good choice and a bad choice we’re going to do the good choice every time it’s those difficult

46:43

decisions that I think really can bog guys down absolutely because it’s in those difficult decisions and those

46:50

difficult conversations as well that we can lean on that on the things that we truly value the things that are

46:55

important to us and I think that’s why when we when we don’t understand that it’s why we struggle and having going

47:02

back to the idea of the impostor syndrome and going to the idea of not really standing up for anything because

47:07

we don’t have anything that’s that we feel is important to us or if we do we’re just too afraid that we might be

47:13

judged by it and and yes there’s lots of judgment in in the world today but we can we can rise above that and we can be

47:20

the model for ourselves and our families and our communities for what comp

47:25

passionate accountability looks like and how to change this model this framework

47:31

that we’re all living in today yeah I think there’s a timeon judgment out there right but what I what I tell my guys is like get out of the stands and

47:37

get into the field right like once you’re in the field once you’re playing the game the stands don’t matter like

47:44

the Judgment doesn’t matter because you can always just be like well at least I’m playing right at least I’m like doing the thing instead of just judging

47:50

from the sidelines you know um so I want to Pivot a little bit one of the other tools you talk about is that the setting

47:56

a compass um so I’m curious what that looks like for the guys that you work with yeah so setting the compass is all

48:01

about taking on again lots of reflection work and in the work that we do this is about looking back on the last 12 months

48:08

of your life and how did you show up in different aspects what did you do that was creative and that really changed the

48:15

world what did you do that you struggled what happened in the last 12 months that you really struggled with and that

48:20

you’re continually continuing to struggle with and what are the things that if the if something hadn’t happened

48:28

that you how you would show up differently and what ultimately it does is I ask the this pieces that first half

48:34

is to really have an assessment over the last 12 months and then write down what

48:39

would that headline of that year this past 12 months would look like for you and now I want then so when you have

48:45

that you have an idea of what how things have transformed how you’ve transformed now what are the next 12 months going to

48:52

look like and they’re the same questions but we’re going to Future Pace ourselves of how does the how do you want to see

48:57

the future of your life turn out and what does that headline look like and when we have this it gives us an

49:03

opportunity to set our Compass or find our true nor star that I that Vision that piece that we aspire to become I

49:11

always say guys come to our work from three things they come because they’re they’re fed up with where their life is

49:17

at and when they can take responsibility for where they’re at then they can start to take responsibility for who they are

49:23

then ultimately we can take responsibility for who we aspire to become and that only comes from doing some deep work and setting the compass

49:31

is a is a is a short little way for them to do that work yeah I I think that’s

49:36

really critical right I mean it’s this idea of separating planning and execution I think so many guys we can

49:43

get caught up in the Whirlwind of just do do do do do but never think about why or for what or is it working is it not

49:49

even working or are we just busy you know do we just feel productive even though we’re not producing anything and

49:55

it does take a lot of Courage trust and maybe even Faith to like take a step back and really plan and then hold

50:02

ourselves accountable so that we can then just execute and follow those orders that we gave ourselves and and move towards a higher purpose um I think

50:09

when we try to make these micro decisions every day we end up fatigued and lost and and stuck even though like

50:14

we feel like we’re just running non-stop but we we’re stuck I completely agree and I think you know that’s why for us

50:21

and and for me starting and doing this this work with the awakened man and and really evolving it and helping it become

50:27

more of what than what the initial idea was but really when I think about it it’s really about helping men liberate

50:34

themselves because none of us need to need to be saved what we need to do is be liberated from our thinking liberated

50:42

from our limiting beliefs around things and really liberate ourselves and be able to break free from these

50:48

self-impose change that we put on ourselves because it’s all the lies that are in that we continue to tell

50:54

ourselves that keeps us trapped that keeps us from moving forward and we can and when we can break

50:59

through that then the world truly is our oyster but it takes guidance you need to

51:05

do that with other men you need to do that with other people to help you break free and see different perspectives

51:11

because doing it on our own we don’t always see that as I said earlier it’s that it’s that never-ending Loop that

51:17

keeps playing that never changes the message yeah you’re kind of like in an echo chamber you know I’m curious as

51:24

we’re moving towards close here what is one thing maybe a a mantra or or a question inquiry question that the

51:32

guys can take with that are listening to this show they can help them you know stay on course as they’re trying to

51:37

evolve and awaken yeah that’s a great question one thing I would ask them to do is that and anytime you’re ready to

51:43

do something or you’re thinking about moving forward is to is to cons complete this sentence I’m the kind of man who

51:51

and whatever you put at after that is really about the foundation about who who you are wanting to show up as a man

51:57

who it’s a reflection of your values your beliefs your integrity everything

52:03

that it is that it means to be masculine and man today for yourself and so complete that sentence and anytime

52:09

you’re going to do something and I think you’ll find yourself being more in alignment with what you truly believe even if you can’t articulate it just yet

52:16

but you’ll be more in alignment and feel better about the actions that you’re taking that’s great advice great advice

52:22

Allan so where can people find you online if want to hear more of what you have to offer or Join one of your

52:28

programs absolutely best place to go to is the awaken

52:38

man.now that’d be the best place uh to find that information yeah so check it

52:44

out guys especially if you’re looking for mentorship if you’re looking for coaching if you’re looking for groups that stuff is is critical I think every

52:51

man should be in some kind of men’s group or men’s program I think we really need each other now more than ever and I

52:57

think we need to um just like you’re saying Alan like have the Return of the King right like return to some of those

53:03

more traditional ways of being and kind of more um ancestral ways of being that have served men for you know Millennia

53:09

right that just got lost in in this modern um modern world so thank you so much for joining us um listeners if

53:17

you’re listening in and you want to learn more about me go check out men’s therapy. online uh we just started a

53:22

book club that’s going to be launching at the end of March um we were talking a lot about books in this episode so the

53:27

first book that we’re reading is actually um Iron John by Robert BL so um it’s not therapy it’s just a place to

53:33

come and talk it’s open to anybody um if they want to join and be a part of this ongoing book club um because you know I

53:40

think studying this stuff in community and not just learning about embeding ideas back and forth but actually having

53:45

accountability and action steps is really really critical um so check it out go to our website men therapy. online and you can see information about

53:52

that there um so Alan thank you again for for being on the show mark thank you so much I really enjoyed the conversation today yeah I hope to keep

54:00

it going so I’m sure we’ll see you back on another episode um so everyone thanks for listening and we’ll see you next week on another episode of the men’s

54:06

therapy [Music] podcast thank you for joining your host

54:13

mark aile on the men’s therapy podcast be sure to tune in again live next Wednesday at 2 p.m. eastern time and

54:19

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the show leave a review on your favorite podcast platform for more information or to apply to be a guest visit www. menstherapypodcast.com