Man Up. Sober Up. w/ Ryan Penley

Man Up. Sober Up. w/ Ryan Penley

March 20, 2024

On this episode we’ll take a cold, hard, look at the reality of drug addiction and recovery. Our guest, Ryan Penley will share his story of reaching rock bottom and having to build back from nothing. You’ll learn some of the lessons and wisdom that Ryan gleaned from this experience and why it’s important to look into that brutally honest mirror.

Episode Transcript:

welcome back to the show I’m your host mark azoulay and I’m here with Ryan penley he’s the founder of Rock Bottom recovery

2:04

and a self-defined rockbottom alumni Ryan welcome to the show well thanks for having me Mark I

2:10

really appreciate it yeah I’m in recovery myself so I always love spotlighting people that have been there

2:15

you know and recovered and gotten better and gotten stronger and I think especially for men this is often the

2:21

thing that gets us into doing the self-work is usually an addiction gone

2:26

bad yeah it’s uh it’s a it’s it’s a good place to start if you’re wondering where

2:31

to get better you know uh issues with substance abuse uh even though maybe

2:37

your life hasn’t been completely torn down by it uh you can damn sure get better by you know either reducing it or

2:45

considering like just cutting it all out you know completely you know what I mean yeah any kind of those like discipline

2:51

challenges I think are really helpful right especially for battling something like drinking or pot smoking or whatever

2:56

right it can be really critical um to just like get a handle on life you know and have more decision about some of

3:01

these substances yeah you know I think you know when I when I talk to somebody

3:08

that’s maybe just kind of like been flirting with the idea and they kind of do like maybe maybe a month like you

3:15

know what I’m just you know I’m gonna cut back and just like see how it goes I

3:20

almost every time I find that they that they find they find a lot of like positive results they find a lot of um

3:28

you know good uh elements of their life or at least you know this additional Clarity if you

3:34

will right at the very least and then you know I think if they were to string together enough days enough weeks maybe

3:42

a few months it’ start to notice like some of the massive changes that can happen uh by just not like filling your

3:48

body with poison you know what I mean um and and don’t get me wrong I’m like I I

3:54

don’t necessarily my mission is not to demonize or or you know like like all

4:00

drinking uh you know just because I personally have uh you know no moderation like whatsoever so like I do

4:09

know that it’s a it’s a possibility to enjoy it uh not an option for me but um

4:16

uh yeah I I I do think uh I think that it’s it can be definitely a source uh or

4:21

at least the beginning of of getting better for any for any guy that just wants to make themselves better right

4:26

absolutely yeah and I think we’re in like a sober Trend right now you know know a lot of the genz clients and stuff

4:31

that I work with are actually not as interested in alcohol in the same way they’re more into like psychedelics

4:36

maybe more into marijuana but alcohol seems to be kind of trending out with the younger generation and I’m in

4:41

Colorado where there’s a lot of professional athletes and they most of them are sober not because they’re addicts right like you and I might be

4:48

right but because they want just to be at that Peak Performance level so I think it’s something where there’s a lot

4:53

more conversation around it whether you you know have a problem or not right it’s something certainly to look at and

4:59

determine hey is this working with my life yeah it it’s uh it’s it’s a to me

5:06

it seems like an obvious place to start um to become well like you know like I

5:12

mentioned you know to to become at your Peak it’s an easy thing to cut out to to

5:17

make a massive step in that direction and now you know like a flip side of that coin if you got a problem with

5:23

recognizing that a few beers every night isn’t holding you back performance-wise then you might have a problem

5:30

so like if you’re if you’re telling yourself The Narrative that like somehow you rest better or the beers make you I

5:38

you know I don’t know like like they somehow increase your recovery that’s bsed and so and if you if you’re buying

5:44

that narrative then you might want to be in the conversation of maybe admitting that that there’s something wrong you know yeah that you’re attached to it

5:51

more right I think the SI exactly right on what alcohol does for the body you know yeah it’s like I have a picture of

5:57

beer like at least twice a week and ites makes me just play so much better it’s like ah you’re lying to yourself man

6:03

that’s and you’re probably drinking a hell of a lot more than that pitcher you know so absolutely well so let’s dig

6:09

into your story I’m curious like what got you into this work what was your story of recovery share it with the

6:15

audience yeah man um you know I uh I I started like I think like maybe a lot of

6:21

men might start like I had a few beers at a party I was underage of course I

6:27

was you know a teenager and and I I was having conversations with cute cute girls I was like talking to to

6:34

girls at school or that were you know from school at these parties and I had uh you know well maybe I was funny maybe

6:41

I wasn’t but I had enough confidence to at least try and so I was like this is awesome man you know like I you know I

6:47

talked to this girl or maybe I got a number and it’s just like I’m gonna do this all the time and then I think that

6:53

it at that point in your life you feel so very you know uh there’s so little

6:59

Reaper cussions I mean you pretty much you’re indestructible at that age so you’re not getting hangover n none of

7:04

these things are affecting you you don’t have a job that you don’t have to show up to so it’s like it’s

7:10

pure you know it’s pure party right like you know there’s the amount of responsibility in your life is very low

7:16

so the the cost of of taking part in that kind of behavior it’s it makes

7:22

sense and and you know and with a younger mind uh men you know we get

7:27

motivated by like the the The increased confidence or at least the increased

7:32

perceived confidence and so it’s like man you know I’m I had a few beers I’m just I’m I’m the life of the party so

7:39

this is this is what I’m going to be doing you know as much as I possibly can and so you know that’s where it started

7:45

but there’s no there’s no doubt that in my family history I have um you know my

7:51

mother my mother’s an addict in alcoholic my father’s uh also uh an

7:56

addict alcoholic he’s been clean but uh because of his history were estranged I don’t have a relationship with him and

8:03

so it’s um the history of my addiction is is I I don’t want to call it standard

8:09

but it makes sense to a lot of professionals they’re like ah there it is you know um now a gift of all of that

8:17

really is that I never really bought into it the the explanation that it was

8:22

anybody’s fault but my my own and that was a gift throughout the whole process but then you know um if you want to add

8:29

other elements to uh uh you know somebody that’s more likely to become an

8:34

alcoholic or a drug addict I moved to Las Vegas when I was 21 right so here I

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am I’m in the belly of the Beast I’m at the epicenter of all uh overindulgence

8:46

Vice right Vice City yeah oh man yeah and and so it’s all available here I am

8:51

you know and so I had money I had everything at my disposal and um you

8:56

know and then I would say that uh um you know was an injury that led it led to

9:02

like a a prescription of a ton of Narcotics like enough pills to kill a

9:08

rhinoceros seriously and then so I was an instant addict and that was a major

9:14

milestone in this journey right so here I am this this doctor is giving me my medicine you know I’m like oh I need

9:21

this I need these are my this is my medicine these are you know I have to get have to take these pills to get to

9:26

the day and then you know I wasn’t the only one this point in time this is around 2008 so there’s a lot of people

9:33

that were in this opioid epidemic and you know might be still considered going

9:38

on maybe not but it was a real thing and so you that here I’m in Las Vegas I’ve

9:43

got this you know massive prescription of Narcotics you know it was a recipe

9:50

for disaster man um and so that Journey uh developed into uh you know I got

9:57

fired and then there’s some things and I lightly touch on those things because they weren’t they were by they weren’t even close to the bottom that I I talk

10:04

about so often uh the rock bottom right so I found myself at Colorado in your uh

10:11

in your in you’re you’re part of the nation right uh I and I did so I left

10:16

Vegas I’m like I got to get out of here so what did I I I had gotten away from the pills uh nor did I have the money

10:23

for the pills and that type of thing so you know once that developed I moved to Colorado and then it was like okay

10:30

uh I say you know I mention often that in these days I didn’t say no often I didn’t say no too much right so it was

10:36

like cocaine uh you know crack heroin it

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didn’t matter really I was everything was on the table by myself uh starting

10:46

to uh it starts to take a toll on me physically you know I mentioned earlier you know when you start off as a

10:53

teenager you can drink you know several beers and you wake up you your body bounces back like nothing it’s like oh

10:59

man you know no big deal time goes on you continue that behavior and you’re going to start to you’re going to start

11:05

to take a toll on that um on on yourself biologically right so I did and I

11:12

developed diabetes uh as a result of my copious drug uh intake and and steady diet of uh

11:19

of booze right so here I am I developed diabetes I’m in complete denial that I have it and then I go into a diabetic

11:27

coma and so uh I’m in in Colorado Estus Park are you familiar oh yeah yep yeah

11:33

Rock Park small town small town small town yeah and so there there was uh no

11:39

no way to help me there to fly me down exactly there’s not not much around so

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here I am you know I’m incoherent I I’m on a helicopter to the closest uh town

11:52

you know and you know the the down the hill right so they had to get me down the hill to uh to Fort Collins uh no I’m

11:59

sorry it was long MTH and they had to give me triage um and my body

12:04

temperature went down to 85 degrees and you know most people kind of they they consider that dead you know I was I was

12:11

I was done you know and so um you know at this point in time people are saying

12:17

you know oh that’s when you turned it around that’s when you you know you said man that’s it I got to turn this around

12:23

no no no no no no I’m I I I suppose if there’s a lot of things that I am I’m not a quitter I had to make sure that I

12:30

would you know I went down the the old staircase to make sure it was the complete Sellar of Rock Bottom Town USA

12:38

and I and I got down there um after coming back to Florida and just diving down uh into the bottle uh for a few

12:46

more years and at that point I couldn’t afford the drugs I uh so the cheapest

12:51

thing out there man is just a plastic bottle vodka from your local liquor store and that was uh like I before it

13:00

was just steady diet of that all food groups led to one thing grain alcohol so

13:07

um that’s what led to a lot of problems with the law basically alienated everybody around

13:15

me and it started being undeniably uh bad and so uh this this

13:25

this point in my life um I knew I the whole admitting that you have a problem

13:31

thing there was no denying it there was very I’m no I’m no fool I looked around

13:37

things were bad and I was on my way out if I continue that kind of behavior you know yeah I I want to pause you here

13:43

right and talk about your mindset because yeah that Rock Bottom is God awful right and there’s a lot of people

13:49

that die there’s a lot of people that never quite turn around and and I wonder you know it seems for many people the

13:56

deeper The Rock Bottom in some ways the harder it is to get back up right because that Gap right from drinking

14:02

grain alcohol to being a functioning member of society it’s so far and it can be really intimidating right to being

14:07

like Oh my God how am I going to ever get back to my life but I’m curious was there anything that helped you start

14:14

moving forward you know pick kind of pick yourself up and and start to reverse course because that that moment is is powerful I mean magical or

14:20

spiritual even you know it’s a big it’s a big moment right and so you know what’s

14:25

peculiar is that now and I think most people do think about well what is that what is that one moment what what was

14:32

that what was that particular instance and I could say I don’t I don’t

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attribute it to any one thing um there there were

14:45

moments and Milestones that that were turning points uh a very a very big one

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and it didn’t correlate to an immediate period of sobriety it did not however

14:59

looking back in the journey man it was a friend of mine he came to check on me because I didn’t show up for work he got

15:04

me a job and I didn’t show up for that job so he showed up to my place here I am uh drunker than a skunk and he didn’t

15:15

shame me I thought for sure here it comes he’s he’s gonna lay into me he’s gonna he’s gonna tell me what’s going on

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and uh you know he’s gonna give me a hard time and I’m feeling all the shame and the guilt he acknowledged that my

15:25

refrigerator was only filled with alcohol and and so he didn’t I’m

15:30

thinking he’s going to pour it out he’s gonna he’s going to yell at me he’s gonna who knows he doesn’t say any of that he just leaves it there he walks

15:37

over and he held my hand and he prayed for me and and he just he just prayed and it was I felt a

15:45

lot of weight lift off lift off of my shoulders and it wasn’t

15:51

necessarily like like a Jesus moment I didn’t just like jump on a Christian

15:56

bandwagon or anything like that but it was the the first time in my life I didn’t feel the weight I didn’t feel the

16:02

pressure and that was a big big deal um that was a that was a major milestone in

16:08

me thinking like oh my God I felt like I could breathe a little bit and so yeah that was um that that was uh not the

16:16

moment but it was several moments like this where I felt this hint of success a

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win and that’s really um I kind of

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noticed when I felt a little bit better right a little less hopeless and then I

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just started kind of leaning into uh whatever it might be that aided

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in that that uh that sense of relief um and then I just compounded those little

16:45

winds over and over and over again it wasn’t instantaneous I can tell you that um and it and it was it came from a very

16:52

deep and dark uh desperation uh but yeah those little tiny winds that I that I

16:58

noticed I leaned into that yeah I think that’s big right and and I’m hearing like the

17:04

acknowledgement that it is a problem it’s not fun anymore it’s not party it’s not status it’s a problem and it’s

17:11

something that you have to beat and I just like that story of your friend because what I’m hearing is that you got like non-judgment and

17:17

forgiveness you know he wasn’t judging you he was like hey I’m here with you we’re going to go through this

17:23

together yeah and he could have I mean he could who knows I mean close door and walked right out right I mean he he

17:30

could have he could have said hey man guess what you’re fired I’m never GNA vouch for you again I’m out of here you

17:36

know but he didn’t and now was a blessing man for sure yeah that’s a that’s a big moment so we’re gonna move

17:42

towards our first commercial break when we come back I want to hear more about how you started to recover from Rock Bottom how you started to move forward

17:49

what those steps looked like and some of the lessons that you may have learned along the way if there’s guys listening

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that um are in a similar place or maybe are afraid of getting into a similar place it’s always great to hear from guys that have been down this path you

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know so you can get a sense of hey this is what the terrain looks like um and it’s not a path that you want to tread

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um so we’ll go to first commercial break if you’re listening hang on in there and we will see you on the other

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side

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welcome back to the show I’m your host Mark AET I’m here with Ryan penley and we’re talking about recovering from Rock

20:45

Bottom um so I have this this Theory Ryan that I want to run past you right so you know I’m a psychotherapist but I

20:51

like to pride myself on not being a traditional kind of like lovey-dovey psychotherapist that can be kind of a hard ass sometimes um and what what I’ve

20:59

seen with men is that I think all of us in our own way need to go through the

21:04

darkness right what I’ve seen a lot of men’s personal journey and certainly mine and and maybe even yours doesn’t

21:10

start from Love and Hope and forgiveness and compassion often starts from fear or

21:15

anger or spite or resentment you know we have that kind of dark side energy in us

21:21

that gets us going we then have to you know heal that and and become a better man down the line but there often is

21:26

this kind of Darkness that kicks off our personal work so I’m I’m curious one I

21:32

guess if that relates to you and two how would you define like the value of rock bottom of that real like humbling moment

21:40

where we where you did have to pick up the pieces for yourself yeah I well I I think you know

21:48

maybe what I’m hearing about uh the the first question there is

21:53

like it’s the Call to Adventure yeah I think I think even as children as uh

22:00

young young boys young men uh they they want to play Pirates they want to they want to dream of of the of the Call to

22:07

Adventure you know and and this can look different uh for I think most men and so

22:15

I’m thinking about different variations or interpretations of that right as I’m saying these words and so um you know

22:23

the trial by fire is a real thing it’s why we see it echoed so many times and so many stories that’s why we we we show

22:30

up for Marvel movies that’s why we show up for these things and so um you know

22:36

there’s and this is also this is conjoined with the second part of your of your of your question here is that

22:42

the degree to which this hero is is is valued the degree to which this hero is

22:51

um celebrated and and admired um I is is in direct correlation

22:57

with with the the trials and tribulations that that he will go through right so um there’s so much

23:04

value in that right and so I think that there’s there’s a compass inside of us that drives us to that right it’s it’s

23:12

wanting to go uh you know bungee jumping and skydiving and all these things those

23:18

are brief moments right but if you were to expand the same feelings right the same the same kind of Notions that kind

23:25

of go go through our um our Cy when we’re pursuing these little little

23:31

stints of Adventure right like it’s it’s usually the the same kind of um I guess

23:39

I guess it’s the feeling right like we all want to be the hero of the story um

23:44

and and I actually you know when you talk about the value of the hardships right consider this right like you pull

23:51

a bow and arrow back right and you you’re an Archer now if you don’t pull it back very far the arrow doesn’t do

23:57

much it’s unnoticeable nobody really cares and it it’s considered like that

24:02

doesn’t count right however if you pull that thing back and you launch it right

24:07

and say you miss the target man at least that thing flying and people are looking and they’re kind of anticipating oh damn

24:13

is it gonna hit the Bulls Eye oh almost you know it’s like that’s the epic part

24:19

of the pullback is our trials and tribulations right and how far back that thing is pulled is in direct correlation

24:26

right it relates to the story right and so when you got that giant pullback you

24:31

got that giant rock bottom visit and everybody knows it it’s loud and clear like oh man that’s tough look what he

24:38

did to himself you know or man he he had maybe it’s maybe it wasn’t self-inflicted maybe it was something

24:44

else that you bounce back from we love that right all people men and women

24:50

right they love the comeback story uh but you know as men I think we have a different value for it I think it’s

24:56

built into us a little bit different and I don’t know if that comes from just historically we’ve been always you know

25:02

we’ve been the captains of the ships we’ve been the ones you know uh leading the March historically right I don’t

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know if it’s because of that or if it’s genetic but I do know it has this value

25:13

in us and then when you you ignore that or or you don’t necessarily realize it

25:19

meaning like you don’t Embrace that pullback you avoid it you hide from it

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you just end up being an uneventful story right so it’s all there’s many

25:30

elements of it of of this whole thing they all kind of Link together and it has to do with with the the pitfalls and

25:37

the failures and the challenges um they’re they’re also they’re they’re directly linked into that story that we

25:43

tell ourselves and the The Call to Adventure and what makes up our character at the end of the at the end

25:49

of this journey that we call life you know I think that’s what we’re working toward is like you know while we’re in

25:56

it make it worthwhile you know make it make it exciting give it a shot you know

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and so that’s what I think uh you know to directly answer the second part of the question it’s like that’s the value

26:07

in the pitfall the trials and the difficulties right is it makes your

26:13

story yeah I agree right I think it points to deeper things that we need to

26:19

work on you know I I think there’s a big practiceing humility that I had from my rock bottom and I imagine you had from

26:24

yours and I think it does take a man versus a boy to recognize weakness right

26:30

and not to judge and not to be ashamed but to be like hey I need to improve an X Y and Z category right to get my

26:36

drinking under control I need to make a little moreit more money to support my family I need to be more available for

26:41

my partner I need to you know be more confident and be able to lead whatever it is right I think it takes a real man

26:47

to see those things and to be like okay here’s where we are here’s the deck of cards I have I’m going to try to play

26:52

this game as best as possible rather than what I think a more boyish response would be would to be a victim right and

26:58

be like no poor pitiful me I’m broken I’m shattered I’m never going to get better and a lot of guys uh they get

27:05

stuck there they get stuck in that victim mentality um so yeah it it’s it’s funny that you mentioned that Mark

27:11

because I I I’ll say like the the biggest victim in the room is the last

27:16

one to get better yeah right so like you go into a room and it’s like I think we’ll call it AA or something in any

27:22

kind of a room it’s people are discussing uh their circumstances it maybe everybody in the room got

27:28

absolutely horrendous circumstances and they’re all suffering from sance abuse the the the biggest victim in that room

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is so far from Gaining traction it’s not even funny right it’s like it’s like man

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you got so much work to do to stop you know because the quicker you are to say you know what at the end of the day I’m

27:49

the one picking up that bottle I’m the one and I and I actually truly believe this about myself you know I I I snorted

27:55

every dmn pill I picked purchased every well maybe I didn’t purchase every bottle but I picked it up and put it to

28:01

my lips nobody has ever actually like put drugs into my nose right like so

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it’s always been me and and having that approach you know like You’ mentioned

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the victim thing is just it’s really delaying any real progress yeah yeah you

28:18

talked earlier about taking responsibility right taking responsibility for your life and I think this is taking responsibility for your

28:24

suffering and shortcomings right which we all have and then once you once you can do that once you get your own house in order then you can start to take on

28:31

more responsibilities whether that be a job or a family or you know an organization or leadership I’m curious

28:37

for you once you got clean and sober right what responsibilities did you take on how did you make your life a better

28:43

story you know a life worth living yeah so um you know I like the

28:49

like in the the first segment there I was mentioning like the small winds um

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it didn’t happen overnight and usually those small

29:00

winds it’s nothing to brag about um I you know I was in bad shape and these uh small winds like it

29:10

included I’ll just tell you that the first wins were like I don’t want to pick up that bottle for 15 minutes 15

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minutes and I failed I I failed right and and and it didn’t many times so um

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so now say the few times made it to 20 or 30 minutes right I couldn’t

29:31

necessarily go telling everybody you know oh hey guys I you know I know I got

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this bottle of liquor in the break room but I didn’t drink it for 30 minutes like so for 15 minutes you know where’s

29:42

a 15 minute chip like yeah and everybody’s like you shouldn’t be drinking at work idiot it’s

29:48

like well it’s like well you know those had to stack up because if I didn’t make

29:54

it to 20 minutes I couldn’t make it to an hour and so if I couldn’t make it to an hour hour I couldn’t make it to a day

29:59

and so when you’re in the trenches those those tiny humbling I wanted to say

30:05

embarrassing but your humbling is a better way to frame it you know those humble The Humble tiny victories that

30:11

you can’t really tell anybody about uh I mean you could but like you know damn

30:17

you know it’s it’s pretty pretty messed up so um you know I all I did was stack

30:22

those up because like IID said like the one it turned into an hour it turned into a day and then in this also you

30:28

know if you want to look at it from something like you know uh some some other elements say say one of your

30:33

audience he’s a man and he doesn’t necessarily have a problem with drinking I did the same thing physically my body

30:39

was complete wreck and I started doing jumping jacks and this is after I was a little bit sober obviously I wasn’t out

30:45

there just hammered trying to do jumping jacks but like I I was like I’m gonna do

30:50

three minutes of jumping jacks I don’t mean straight three minutes I don’t even mean I mean three minutes within 20 four

30:58

hours so I I did like maybe 40 seconds you know and then the next shot it

31:05

wasn’t even 40 seconds it’s like 30 so I but I got there and again you know

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that’s not you don’t look on Instagram there’s not like sports uh influencers

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like check it out guys I’m gonna do three minutes of jumping jacks and then that’s the end of the video it’s like it

31:22

was kind of embarrassing and then yet the the next morning I felt like I got hit by a truck my ankles hurt my knees

31:30

hurt and then but here’s the glory right the glory and the takeaway is that then

31:36

I did five and then at one point I was I was shooting to do a thousand and then

31:42

and then you gain that momentum and you can own that momentum and then then you

31:48

start to get something that you can be proud of I mean you know nonetheless you can be a little bit proud of those tiny

31:53

ones as well you know personally but um they Stack Up and they grow

31:58

exponentially right and I think that’s that’s a massive takeaway yeah I I don’t

32:04

know if there’s an easy answer for this but and if you had it’ be like the golden key to everything right it’s like

32:10

how do you keep going how do you keep going because I talked to a lot of people you know either doing Fitness

32:15

Journeys you know or doing recovery Journeys or whatever and that moment where just like you said it’s like [ __ ]

32:22

I can only do 3 minutes of jumping jacks I can’t even do it every day and I’m just wasted by the end of it is really

32:29

humbling and like you said embarrassing humiliating you know I know a lot of people that are overweight they get on

32:34

the treadmill and they’re like oh my God I am so out of shape you know where I where I am now versus where I want to be

32:41

is feels like miles and miles and miles away and I think for a lot of people that like initial mirror is really scary

32:48

and really and can defeat them so again I don’t know if there’s the easy answer for this but I am curious for you like

32:54

what what keeps that momentum going what kept you going when you were in that humble place you know so so I I mean I

33:02

do I do have a what I believe to be a pretty decent answer for that yeah and I kind of came up with this after after I

33:09

put out my book and everything this came post my book and my story and all that

33:15

and I believe that addicts Make the World Go Round right and and so you

33:21

wonder like well what the hell does that mean uh was Mother Teresa addicted to peace and and benevolence right was

33:27

Steve Jobs addicted to Innovation I would say strongly yeah like people are

33:33

telling like Mother Teresa like hey cut it out like what are you doing like you’re not even eating you’re feeding these people or you’re in this danger

33:39

zone and you know why are you helping these people you’re you’re you know you put yourself at risk and it’s like

33:45

because she was addicted to something that was cool so I know that I’m an addict right I’m an addict so I’m not

33:52

going to fight that what I am going to do is I’m going to lean into where my attention is is what sparks some of that

34:00

um and for for me like kind of like physical fitness kind of helps like I

34:06

lean into that I have like a I I look at it and I’m like kind of I admire it you

34:11

know and that kind of thing so everybody has something that they’re interested in so if you are a person and you’re and

34:17

you’re an addict you’re suffering for something and you my my best move for you is get addicted to something useful

34:24

something that’s not selfish and just lean into to it now say say it is like

34:30

absolutely horrific you do the three minutes of jumping jacks and you’re just like well damn that was just I I could

34:37

not hate anything more now because I mentioned my body was in pain but it my

34:43

brain kind of liked it so so say you do it and you despise it mentally all right

34:50

we we’ll try swimming and then or or tennis or something right and so you

34:57

just keep plugging away at something I what I wouldn’t recommend is like you

35:03

know set like digging your heels into something that you despise right like if

35:09

if it’s something that like you absolutely horribly can’t stand you’re not gonna last too long so say but

35:17

that’s not the same thing as it being difficult right like it’s like okay that was hard but I kind of liked it and I

35:26

kind of suck right now but I think maybe I could do it again like that’s where you want to lean in but if you do

35:32

something and you’re like okay I hate this and I want to get the hell out of here as soon as possible and I can’t I

35:39

can’t there’s nothing worse that I could imagine doing with my time all right maybe give something else a shot you

35:46

know what I mean and so then I think if you keep searching you got to find something that you think is cool you

35:52

know yeah I mean I think that’s the the ticket right is like getting good at being bad at stuff you know and I think

35:59

it requires that you that you do enjoy it to some extent or or you at least respect people that are at a higher

36:06

level than you or maybe you have a hero in the field or something but it is this idea of of being good at being bad I’ve

36:13

found humor to be a big one if I I need to be able to laugh at myself right if I’m doing it so so for my thing it was

36:19

CrossFit right and it’s like I’m there and in CrossFit you like yell out your score at the end of the workout right

36:24

you you yell publicly like how how many reps you did or what your weight was and

36:30

you know in the beginning I’m like you know 30 lbs under like the 55-year-old women right that are there and I’m just

36:36

like all right put it on the board 25 pounds I did it three times you know and like I I needed to have that that humor

36:43

with it um in order to to move through that and if I’m if I’m laugh at myself I

36:48

can I can keep myself going but I find if I take it too personally um then it just it can destroy me you know I can I

36:55

can get in my head too much yeah no I I agree with you man and if you if you can

37:00

keep it light that’s definitely it’s going to be advantageous for you you know to to have um to to not take your

37:08

not take yourself too seriously when you know you’re about to look like a fool yeah exactly and I think having other

37:14

people to laugh and like other people on the path can be really helpful too I found that Community is critical I mean

37:19

whether that be like the a rooms right or workout buddies or even a coach or a trainer need to pay for that is totally

37:25

fine I think having Community is really critical because it can be so easy to feel like you’re alone in it and to feel

37:31

like you’re like the most effed up person on the planet right your addiction is the worst and you’re never going to get out of it or you’re the

37:37

most out of shaped person ever it can be really helpful because just like you said there’s no one no one on Instagram

37:43

posting about their three minutes of jumping jacks you know they’re posting about breaking records and doing you know Pull-Ups for three days in a row

37:49

you know yeah yeah it’s like it’s like 2,000 pull-ups like damn man I like I’m

37:56

holding on for dear life I got half yeah like I can’t even get one right if I got one pull up that would be

38:01

a big win for me you know yeah that’s for certain

38:07

man yeah so we’re g to move to our final commercial break uh when we get back we’re going to talk directly to the

38:12

listeners giving away some tips some ideas some tricks things that can get them started on this path of healing and

38:18

Recovery um stuff that you’ve learned along the way that are easy accessible and that people can start right now um

38:25

so if you’re enjoying the show give us a like give us a share give us a subscribe we are broadcasting video as well on

38:32

Facebook and YouTube so check us out there we’re building those platforms up so share it um give it out to people

38:37

that you need that need to hear this message and when we come back we’ll talk talk directly to you and you can get

38:42

started with the challenge right away so we’ll see you on the other

38:56

side

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41:09

welcome back I’m here with Ryan penley and we’re talking about humility we’re talking about recovery we’re talking

41:15

about taking things one step at a time and building positive momentum so we got a great great conversation going Ryan

41:21

I’m curious what can our listeners do right they’re inspired by your story they’re inspired by your work what could

41:26

they do right after this podcast to get that ball rolling yeah I I actually have a a a

41:33

nice little solution for that at uh website my rockbottom recovery.com I put

41:38

together a 21-day Challenge and um it’s not necessarily so much I I call it a

41:43

challenge to kind of like like Peak Interest um however it’s I engineered it

41:48

myself to be attainable um and so if if you’re at a standstill or maybe even

41:55

behind a standstill and you’re moving backwards a little bit B like it’s a good place to start um you know as I had

42:01

mentioned earlier you have to be you have to kind of assess yourself and and think about

42:07

what um what you can attain because if you if you kind of mess this stage of

42:13

goal setting up too much and you put the goal too far ahead of yourself you’re setting yourself up for failure if you

42:20

make it too easy you’re not interested enough so there’s like a sweet spot kind of like a goalie locks kind of a a a

42:26

place you want to be in and so um but you do have to start somewhere and if I

42:31

if I were to put a blanket statement on where you start start humbly right and just get a win right because that wind

42:39

will turn into something a little bit larger and then you stretch and then those winds compound and then you have

42:45

exponential growth right at your feet you know yeah I think that’s great and for listeners that link will be in the

42:50

show notes you can go ahead and click on that and check out his Challenge and yeah I think the power of streaks is

42:55

really important you you know when I was kind of getting my ball rolling I had um a calendar right just posted right

43:01

literally behind my monitor so I could look at it whenever I was working of hey here’s a day where i’m not going to drink or for me it was really smoking

43:07

wheed so here’s the day where I didn’t smoke boom X you know or here’s a day where I meditate that was a big part of my recovery okay boom cross it off and

43:15

seeing those streaks going was really motivating because it’s like okay all I have to do is this one thing today just

43:21

have to do one thing today and that was um humbling cuz sometimes like you said I didn’t I didn’t even do that one one

43:27

thing right but it was also very clarifying and and simplistic which I

43:32

think is really helpful because I don’t know about you but when I was in my addiction my life was very chaotic so

43:37

being able to kind of dial back into a very simplistic way of being was was really healing for me of like hey do

43:44

this routine do this thing like just get it done that was um very calming and

43:49

soothing yeah it’s yeah keeping it simple k k i SS keep it simple stupid I

43:55

mean that’s there’s there’s value there there’s value there and so um you know if you’re getting pulled in too many

44:01

directions you you many times you can miss the mark and so yeah if it’s I

44:07

think it’s I I think it’s beneficial to just shoot for maybe just one thing and if you can do that right it keeps your

44:14

eyes on the prize and and so you know you start to build this and of course complexity will come and you and you’ll

44:21

gain abilities and skills and whatever or or just sober days you know because I

44:26

mean I don’t know if you could consider sobriety as a skill set but it is something that you can build a streak

44:32

behind and and there’s and there’s no shortage of evidence that streaks are a real thing that’s why you see it built

44:38

into so many successful programs um you know and it’s but there’s also there’s

44:44

an element to that that I think it should not be forgotten and that that’s you got to celebrate it too right and so

44:51

um you know you see like when you marking those on your calendar did you did you reward yourself yeah for me was

44:57

it was massages actually I’d book a massage if I got like you know a month done or something yeah nice yeah so yeah

45:06

I mean but that’s such a key element of it you know what I mean uh and so and it

45:11

could be by yourself or it could be with a team or a group and and so uh whatever

45:16

that formula looks like uh for you if you know that um you know these are tools right uh one of my one of my big

45:23

tools is is observation of myself uh I try to gain an objective view I do that by journaling every day um it gives me a

45:31

point uh in the day that I can kind of take a step away from myself and kind of

45:37

see where I’m at and make another assessment you know because what what you what what gets measured gets better

45:44

and then there’s a lot of Truth there too um so yeah that this uh if we’re talking where to begin it’s like there’s

45:52

going to be no shortage of maybe problems that any man will have in their

45:58

life um but you got to be a little you have to be pretty honest too right like you had mentioned earlier looking in the

46:03

mirror um so maybe start with something small right start somewhere that you can

46:09

just do something uh because if it’s just in the general direction of of

46:14

better man it’s probably a lot better than what where you were at you know just just destroying yourself you know

46:20

if if you’re talking about substance abuse that’s for certain yeah absolutely you know so I want to I want to zoom out

46:26

as we’re kind of moving towards the end of the segment and talk about being a better man you know developing masculinity growing up in a lot of ways

46:34

and the topic of this uh episode right is man up so up and I think we have that kind of masculinity piece there in the

46:40

in the title so I’m curious for you right like once you once you got these small wins do you have more aspirational

46:47

goals or or maybe deep work goals or or how did it how did it transform who you were fundamentally how did it transform

46:54

you as a man yeah well I I’ll say this and I don’t even

47:01

know if it’s like the best move to say this but I wanted to move I didn’t want

47:07

my identity to be the sober guy yeah right like even now I’m thinking about a

47:13

second book it’s gonna be man up level up right I want to move beyond the

47:19

identity of oh I I’m I’m sober and I’ve been sober this long I would I would

47:25

prefer that I have another title and so it gave me something to keep chasing

47:32

because sobriety is fantastic and without it there’s probably very little you can achieve if you’re not sober uh

47:37

so check that box off pretty good you know now I’m always going to be in risk of you know succumbing to these um

47:45

addictions and I know that however um by having something a go goal to keep

47:50

chasing I kept developing and so I I can say right now if you’re talking about my life where I’m at right now now I’m I’m

47:57

supposed to have a kid on the 25th this month all right it’s me my yeah it’s my first born and um and if you had talked

48:05

to myself six years ago when uh when I was in the trenches man you’d say hey what do you think about getting married

48:11

or having kids and I’d just say are you kidding me man I I hope to make it to next week you know I mean like and now

48:18

uh you know we’re supposed to induce labor on Monday um I’m getting a little nervous but you know uh it’s time to man

48:25

up again you know so now it’s like I guess the third book could be man up father up I I’m not

48:32

sure I’m not not positive but I I know I know that setting that bar uh you know

48:39

in front of myself and and having having that uh that goalpost kind of moving on me right it’s it’s perpetual man like

48:48

there’s there’s no real finish line for me and so um I think that that’s that’s

48:53

uh that’s something really important you know we we as men uh that there’s no there’s no ceiling

48:59

and um and we can continue to keep getting better right continue to like focusing on different elements so I I

49:06

where where social life and family life was non-existent to me here I

49:12

am you know the kids here man like and it kind of I like I don’t like wow you

49:19

know but I mean it seems like like I had mentioned you know like if I didn’t check off the sobriety thing first this

49:26

part would wouldn’t be possible and I imagine if you when we talk in another couple years brother I’m going to have

49:32

uh something else to tell you that’s some other goalpost that I’m aiming at you know what I mean yeah for sure and I

49:39

just want to underline what you’re saying because I believe the same thing where I think men grow through challenge right I believe women grow through

49:45

relationships grow through relationship and Men grow through Challenge and the challenge is different you know I think

49:51

for the young man we always think of physical right or fitness challenges and that’s really important as a young man but you’re about to take on is a

49:58

challenge of responsibility of Love of mentorship of teaching of presence it’s

50:03

all this whole different realm besides just hey how far can you run how much can you lift you know got take it easy

50:10

man you make me a little nervous that’s a lot I got I got to work that’s a lot of work yeah I mean you’re going to do I

50:15

mean me I don’t have kids either but me and my fiance are going to start trying later this year so I’m in the same boat

50:21

I’m also heavily freaked out about what what life is going to be like like you

50:27

know nice well that’s good to hear man yeah yeah but I do think there is there’s something very uh masculine for

50:34

me it’s the uh the value of Mastery right of like getting better at stuff is Mastery right and like it’s different

50:39

stuff right when we’re older you know if we get that far it’ll be about wisdom and about giving back and about you know

50:46

presence um maybe spirituality right I think the challenge of the man changes

50:51

but I think we should always be seeking challenge because that is that’s how we grow you know I think the the worst

50:57

thing a man can be is complacent you know and and too comfortable a man or not trying yeah you know it’s like man I

51:05

I I mean I I fail a lot but I feel a lot worse for for guys that you know that

51:12

don’t get out there and get shot down or or or you know it’s like that fate is

51:17

much worse to me and so uh you know maybe that’s another element of of what keeps me kind of moving you know towards

51:25

uh a better direction is that like you know I don’t I don’t want to I don’t want to like die on the sidelines man

51:31

you know I’d rather I’d rather be in there you know yeah yeah and there’s so many people like that right I I think

51:37

our this is a whole another topic but I think our modern culture has created a lot of critics and a lot of judgmental people there’s a lot of like consumers

51:44

right people that are in the stands so I’m always um happy and inspired and honored to meet someone like you who’s

51:50

in the field right like even if you’re losing doesn’t matter like at least you’re in the field at least you’re

51:56

playing the game versus just being on the sidelines of being in the stand yeah man it’s a there’s a there’s

52:02

a real value uh uh well it’s w Winston Churchill you know the the man in the

52:07

arena uh and to any of your listeners who haven’t listened to that man that’s that’s a historical piece of of Art and

52:15

the bottom line is the glory belongs to the guy who’s in there who’s bleeding

52:20

he’s covered in sand and it does not belong to the people that are up there like ah he could have he he could have

52:26

done better oh he should have done this like man you get you get no points for

52:32

that you know what I mean and so I’m kind of glad I you know I get beat up often you know I get knocked around by

52:38

some some people that don’t agree but I wouldn’t have it any other way you know

52:43

yeah I love that I mean something something I tell my guys is that you should be failing like 30% of the time

52:48

right not you know not 50 that’s probably like a little bit too hard but not 10 cuz you’re probably a little too easy but like 30 you know you got to be

52:55

like working that edge and in working that edge we become sharper right that’s how we kind of sharpen our souls and

53:01

sharpen our mind and sharpen our body is by just kind of always living on that edge of failure and success yeah I I love that you

53:08

Quantified it you know that’s a good Target I think 30% is a damn good Target yeah because you know you don’t want to fail too much right you do still want

53:16

but you do got to be hitting that um so Ryan this is a phenomenal episode you’re super easy to talk to great conversation

53:22

love your story love your books all that stuff is going to be in the show notes for our listeners uh but where can people find you online if they want to

53:29

just hear more of you and get to know you a little bit better yeah well I have uh my website Ryan penley dorg um it’s

53:37

really just my book is there uh but there’s an author uh contact page if you

53:42

get on there and shoot me a message through email I’ll get back to you um other than that if you go on Facebook my

53:48

rock bottom recovery is my page um you know get on there there’s a lot of

53:54

people interacting um there’s there’s some uh you know a lot of uh sober

53:59

material if you will uh so yeah I mean those are both really good ways I mean I’m I’m not at some point in my life

54:05

where I’m like uh you know not not talking to people that want to talk to

54:11

me you know what I mean like uh and so so I’m glad to do so right so I’m glad I’m glad to to you know whatever it

54:19

might be respond on email jump on a call whatever it is you can reach out those couple ways there and then uh and I’d

54:25

love to love to have a convers or or whatever whatever unfolds yeah I think that’s great it’s a real like

54:31

Personal Touch you know so it’s like I’m saying to our listeners like call this dude right email him you know his his

54:37

stuff is out there he’ll pick up the phone he’ll he’ll respond if you’re looking for you know someone to motivate

54:43

you or a mentor or or an ally in sobriety I think Ryan’s your guy so certainly reach out to him and check out

54:48

his stuff so Ryan again thank you so much for being on the show right on man

54:53

I appreciate it Mark yeah and to our listeners if you enjoyed it all the stuff right like subscribe share give

54:59

this to somebody send it to a man who is struggling with recovery or someone that you know really needs to hear the the

55:04

wisdom of moving one step at a time you know starting slow starting small and building that momentum I think it’s

55:11

stuff that as men we need to hear a thousand times you know I knew when I was in my kind of adolescent grandiosity

55:17

I wasn’t ready to move slow I wanted to go big or go hard and that’s what drove me into addiction so I think I needed to

55:24

hear this episode when I was younger so so again thank you so much for joining me listeners thanks for listening and

55:30

we’ll see you next week another episode of the men’s therapy podcast all

55:55

right