Life on the Road w/ Rand Wilson PsyD

Life on the Road w/ Rand Wilson PsyD

January 3, 2024

So many of us have the fantasy of picking up our life, packing and RV, and traveling the country. Well, Rand Wilson did it! In this episode we’ll hear about his story and more importantly, the lessons that he learned along the way about fatherhood, minimalism, and adventure.

Episode Transcript:

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[Music] Mark azoulay is an industry leader in

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Psychotherapy and men’s mental health he’s helped countless guys get back on their feet deepen their relationships

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and Excel in their lives now he’s taken all that he has learned and is sharing it with you in each episode Mark will

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interview an expert in the field of masculinity and men’s work we’ll cover topics such as emotional intelligence

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masculine identity anger management Financial Health trauma recovery marriage and divorce ethics and

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spirituality tune in and become a better man welcome back to the men’s podcast

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I’m here with Randall Wilson he’s a good friend of Miguel Lewis who’s been on the show before um and Rand I’m excited to

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get to know you um you’re a psychologist you’ve been traveling the country in RV for a year which I think is awesome I

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want to hear some stories about that and we were talking before the show about interest in men’s work and nature connection mindfulness and meditation

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there’s a lot of overlap so Rand welcome to the show thank you it’s a pleasure to be here I’m looking forward to this

1:06

conversation yeah so let’s just start with you right kind of the personal story um what is your story with

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masculinity what is your story with being a male therapist and psychologist there’s there’s not that many of us yeah

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so um yeah that’s kind of interesting uh to think about right when you’re going to school uh to become a therapist U

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that it used to be sort of flipped in the opposite direction I think it was something like uh 3070 um female to male

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and now it’s about 70 30% um female or that was when I was in school at least um so yeah so there’s

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a out in the field there’s not quite as many of us of course um but you know

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like uh my experience uh mainly has been working in the VA system uh so I’m

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working mainly with with male patients um and you know it’s worked into my practice that way uh and so in terms of

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uh you you know how this journey I’m on relates to my own masculinity I figured I’d uh you know tell you a little bit

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about how it started and because masculinity I think plays a role in

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there somewhere um so there’s a few different factors you know that is involved in me doing this trip and you

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know one of them was just a I have a value of you know Adventure I think that’s a an important value for human

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beings to have to be curious open and willing to to throw yourself out there and have things go wrong basically um

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also there was a a little bit of a a burnout piece in there I’ve been working for the VA for uh about 12 years uh

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specializing in PTSD and so uh you know you’re hearing the worst of the worst uh

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every day doing that kind of treatment and uh and then beyond that you know the

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clinical side of things uh didn’t have me too burnt out but being stuck uh in

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an office uh with no windows and this is in Florida by the way and so going outside’s only an option a few

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months in the colder months of the year um that really had me feeling trapped

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and confined and I didn’t feel really fulfilled as a you know as a man or just a as a person um but so there’s another

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piece here is that uh about a year and a half before we left my dad passed away

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uh really uh extremely rare form of cancer it’s about one in a million um

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and so he was uh you know he sort of instilled this value of of Adventure into me uh

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among you know other things that he taught me about about how to be a man and and so this this trip was already in

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the works but then it it became something uh more like a commitment that

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I you know I signed up for this thing and I’m going to follow through with it and I’m going to do it you know in his

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honor and also in a way that I think that he would approve of and that he would enjoy if he was doing it

4:02

himself yeah that’s a great story I love the value of Adventure can you say more

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about that about why that’s so important to you like what do you get out of it so I think uh well a few things I guess um

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one is just I think human beings uh you know this has been said before human beings are sort of wired for novelty

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right and Novelty seeking can turn into a problem sometimes um but I think it’s also uh you know it can can work to our

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benefit if we sort of plug ourselves into it in a healthy way and so adventure for me um means just kind of

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again thrown yourself out there pursuing things that interest you and then being

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prepared uh for things to go wrong basically and being open to that and I

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think it you know that’s a good recipe for growth for anyone really and you don’t have to buy an RV and travel

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around the country um like we’re doing you can you know you can Adventure in a million different ways

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uh but I think it’s really crucial to to growth and uh you know moving forward in

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your life in a healthy way if you’re if there’s no sense of adventure or curiosity that’s when someone I think is

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really stuck and like when when bad things start to happen in a person’s life yeah I think that’s true right I

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mean I think there’s so many guys that can fall into this routine and complacency right and they don’t they’re

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they’re not challenged and they might think that they have they’ve attained security and stability and all these

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think that they were fighting for but they don’t have that spark anymore you know and I see a lot my like Gen X and

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Boomer clients where like the the light has kind of died from their eyes um they have everything they want but they’re not they’re not happy yeah yeah I think

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uh in those Generations that stability was was the main thing you know like in career and uh in terms of your home and

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stuff like that you do the work 25 to 30 years um retire on schedule and so you

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know and that brings me back to my dad so that’s what he did um and I’ve

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learned you know a lot of great things from him I you know I really admire him as a person um but one of the things

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that I think that he sort of went astray with that I don’t want to repeat is he

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held off too long on on going out and seeking his own Adventures he he we did

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camping trips and all that growing up that’s kind of what set me up to be interested in doing this um but he held

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off retirement was kind of pushing it back year after year he was a busy body and so I think it it sort of worried him

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a little bit what am I going to do when I’m done working um and then when he finally retired kept himself so busy that he

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never had time to to go out and adventure and do the things that he wanted to do and then

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um this you know this cancer he had uh by the time we knew what was going on it

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was 5 months he was gone after and so you know it was it went by in a flat and

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and the opportunity was gone and he had dreams to go see Yellowstone to get a camper and travel around like this um so

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I think uh you know this idea that like we only have one life and we often like

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dream about all these things that we want to do and it’s like oh maybe in another life or maybe when I retire um

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but you know you only have one life and so um so you got to do what matters to

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you in in the present in this lifetime you know yeah it’s really beautiful I that you’re honoring your dad by doing this trip it

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sounds like you’re really like completing his journey in a way you know getting able to experience that and you

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know I know where spirituality is but I hope on some way maybe he’s experiencing it through you too yeah so um I I

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haven’t shared this with too many people outside of family but uh but his ashes are uh coming along for the ride and and

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have been dropped off in in some of the most beautiful places in the country I I I try to um you know select the right

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places and and make it meaningful um but he’s uh he’s visited the Grand Canyon

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he’s visited um yosity uh there’s about seven eight other places he’s been to and and is and

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is a part of now you know in a very real physical way yeah that’s awesome that’s really awesome I like that idea that

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like he’s being scattered in all these adventurous places so I’m curious you said you’ve

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been doing this since January so you’ve been on the road for a while what have you learned about yourself or about the

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world or or what like what are you what are you lessons are you getting lots so uh um so we have a YouTube channel I’ll

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plug that at the end but one of the things we were doing in the beginning was uh this Lessons Learned segment at

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the end of our our videos um because every single trip that we took um going

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back to like Adventure means putting yourself out there not knowing what’s going to happen um we were running into

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trouble constantly things breaking uh getting to a spot and it’s and it’s a

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little bit sketchy or not really what you were hoping it was going to be and and then you got to try to find somewhere else to go um so constantly

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learning lessons uh at the you know the Practical level like that uh fixing the

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camper planning things um also I uh I had it was a really interesting

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experience for myself and my wife and we uh when we started off on this trip we’ve been dreaming about this and

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planning it for like five years and um so we really took our time planned it out well and and it was always something

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I was looking forward to in my mind and like oh this is going to be amazing I can’t wait I had this image of what it was going to be like and then it starts

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and you know just for example our very first evening of the trip we arrived and and it was full-on Florida thunderstorm

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opening up on top of us in the dark while we’re trying to set our camper up and we’re like okay this is day one um

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and so uh so there there’s that part like that’s been a major lesson for both

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of us um you know what you expect and envision the future is going to look like is often you know nothing what it

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ends up nothing like what it ends up actually being um and some other things

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you know I learned about myself is is uh breaking away from the nin to-5 schedule was really easy and and

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wonderful at first like you’re going on vacation uh and then quickly afterwards

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the guil starts to set in like oh I’m not working enough or you know I need to be doing more I need to be pumping out

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you know more travel videos or um or whatever and not feeling productive

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enough uh just constantly kind of beating myself up about that so that was

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a that was a lesson that took probably three months to really um to really get

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to know and and then to start to overcome and to start to give myself permission to really enjoy the trip and

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not have to work constantly you know yeah figure out what pace is actually your pace right versus like what I

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imagine the VA kind of prescribed as your pace right exactly yeah so that’s a

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you know going from a nine-to-five job uh to not working hardly at all at first on this trip was which was part of the

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plan um but I mean I likened it to this is a little bit of an exaggeration but

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it felt like being in prison and then you get out and you’re just like what do I do with my own time there’s no one telling me what to do I have to be up at

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a certain time time um and then there was that guilt component showing up like

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well this is everyone else is going to work you’re watching everyone come camp on the weekends go back to work and and

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like why do I deserve to uh to be out here just having fun not working you know yeah that’s interesting there’s

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like a survivors guilt element almost right of makes you so special or yeah yeah yeah that’s a good a good way to

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describe it it kind of felt like that you see people and colleagues still working in the same place and you know

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feeling bad um that I’m out here enjoying this and they’re sort of stuck in the office and that kind of thing not

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that that’s how they’re feeling you know they might feel great and feel fulfilled with what they’re doing but a little bit

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of that survivors guilt was showing up yeah I’m curious how you it sounds like you got the Rhythm now curious how you

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found the Rhythm right because I know a lot of guys especially you know I think retirement or when they lose their job

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or they quit they crumble right without that structure I think there is a just to like I don’t know fall into a

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depression or spend all time watching TV and eating junk food and just like having trouble really kickstarting the

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engine how did you turn that around so I’d say a couple of things helped out

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with that um I was I was part of a a group and and and um talking to this

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group each week and getting feedback from them um and and sort of just hearing it from the outside you know

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when you say this stuff uh out loud you don’t you know know how you sound but

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then someone bounces it back at you um you know they were telling me like this is you’ve been planning this for years

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um you know this is and it’s really difficult and there’s a lot of planning and stress involved and so you are

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working and so that really helped just to kind of get some feedback so it’s not just my own internal uh voice talking to

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me um and then I’d say the other thing is like I had something really wonderful

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to to really engage myself in which is like exploring in each place that we’re at uh going out and Hiking each day um

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taking long drives to some really cool spots and so um so I was able over time

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to really start to turn towards and engage with that more and and sort of forgive myself for the not working part

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and reminding myself this was all part of the plan um and then you know gradually it just started to

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fade yeah started to like be like oh yes this is what I want you know yeah because I think I mean back to

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masculinity maybe we talk about this a little bit in the next segment it’s like you you took what a lot of guys get all

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their value from which is professional and you’re like okay what if we just shake that up right and the story that I’m making up is this question of like

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who are you without that role right without that stat you know yeah and I

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think for a lot of men it’s really um it’s really open um and empty so I’m

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curious like what what are you without the job right like what fast of yourself came alive during this trip I think um I keep circling back to

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my dad uh my dad was uh was probably the uh the most handy uh human being I’ve

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ever come across you you could fix anything um that part uh I kind of

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discovered in myself getting on this trip because uh everything in an RV breaks uh like constantly so imagine

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driving picking your house up and driving it down the road and then and shaking it really hard uh once a week

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and you can imagine everything breaks um so learning how to how to fix things and

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that that I was confident and I was able to do that was a big part of it and I think also just sort of um settling into

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this like Adventure sort of mentality like I’m out here I’m way out here sometimes in the middle of nowhere um

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and seeing this really beautiful stuff and like this is what this is all about and feeling good about that that’s

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awesome that’s awesome yes we’re going to move to our first commercial break when we come back I want to talk about the fatherhood piece too you mentioned

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that you have some kids and yeah I just imagine you and your family going down the road and kind of this pressure cooker right where you spent a lot of

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yeah we call it the torture capsule yeah there you go right it’s just like when they’re being loud inside yeah a lot of

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time together and not you know not having child care or having friends or any of that stuff so I’m excited to

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learn um what that experience is like um so if you’re listening hang on in there and we’ll see you on the other side of

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www.men theapy podcast.com now back to the men’s therapy podcast

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welcome back to men’s therapy podcast I’m here with Rand Wilson talking about adventuring novelty and all Lessons

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Learned along the way you’re traveling the country with your family um and I want to talk about that right like what

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is what is that like being in that in that pressure cooker like you said the torture capsule no child care no relief nothing

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um yeah just really intense family time I imagine yeah that’s been uh it’s funny

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because that that’s been um uh among the top questions I get from family and friends when I get in contact with and

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they want to know where we’re at what we’re seeing but then uh then they want to know how we’re keeping uh maintaining

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our our sanity with uh with two young kids inside of an RV um so the first

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thing about that is our RV is not tiny um as you can see behind me this is just like the living space we’ve got a

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bedroom up front so it’s a 36 foot fifth wheel um we have our own wife and I have our own separate bedroom so um you know

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at night kids are asleep we can hang out watch some TV get some alone time um but

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the so the other thing is I I’ve had this theory about kids like people um

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kids are loud and rambunctious and people uh get frustrated with that

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including myself it you know puts you on edge um and and I’ve thought about how

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like you know maybe the problem is not the kids are too loud and rambunctious but that we’ve put them in too small of

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a of a container even in a a conventional house um like kids are wild and they run around loud because there’s

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supposed to be outdoors where that stuff doesn’t hurt your ears quite as much and where they can do more of that um so our

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answer to that has been uh to basically to be outside as much as possible which

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is kind of built into why we are doing this whole trip anyway um but you know if the kids are

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getting wild and and and it it’s very loud inside this small space with two kids like then it’s time to go outside

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and you know we’ll take them out or we’ll give them something interesting do to go play outside with um that seems to

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solve that problem sometimes uh other times I I just had to we both you know

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had to really work on our patients um which is sort of like been more of a challenge and I think helped us to grow

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a little bit more in that part of our parenting the patient side yeah I mean you just kind of

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diffuse it right like nature can hold all the kids’s wildness um yeah so it’s

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good I’m curious like what’s your relationship with your wife like so you know a couple weeks ago I just spent about 10 days going in the

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desert in Moab which is me and my fiance offroading through like the back country of

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Canyonlands and by the end I fell a lot closer but also kind of like ran out of

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stuff to talk about right like I just like I didn’t really know how else to connect I feel like I kind of Hit the

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bottom of a well or something I’m CU you experience that or or what that’s like

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to be so close yeah that uh that might have happened

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you know if we didn’t have the kids with us I think having the kids along for the ride um you know I was uh I was joking

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around earlier um I believe before the break and saying that’s uh before we started the show actually and saying

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that if I’m honest like all of the stuff I talk about in here all take second place to the parenting part because

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we’re spending all day with them uh very close relationship with them obviously on this trip um so the amount of time

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that my wife and I actually get alone to speak to each other is uh is not quite

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enough um to run out of it’s it’s on the other end it’s like we get to the end of the day and we’re like all right now we finally get to talk um without a kid

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talking over us or wantan to play or something like that you could have some adult conversation by the end yeah yeah

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yeah and that that’s become so our time alone has become kind of precious and we

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have to really uh be smart about about you know making sure the kids get all their energy out that they get to

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socialize a bit so that they’re they’re tired and feeling fulfilled at the end of the day and they’ll go to sleep you

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know and then uh and then we can actually enjoy some time for sure yeah how old are your kids I don’t think we

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mentioned that on the show they are six and eight okay so that’s my next question is are you homeschooling or how

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are you doing education yes uh so we had a plan to homeschool uh on this trip you

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know before it ever happened and then my daughter was uh coming of age to start uh kindergarten right when Co hit and so

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um at that point we sort of uh we’re going to started off in Traditional School and then do homeschooling on the

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trip but uh but we decided let’s just start now um it was only uh uh about two

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years after that point we were going to leave on the trip and and then um you know I like to I’m very science-minded

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I’m curious and so um so we both started buying a bunch of books we were starting to read up on homeschooling and that and

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I all of a sudden kind of I hadn’t put too much thought into homeschooling um and but started to fall into it we both

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did like oh wait a minute this is like this is really cool and a lot of it makes sense to me as a psychologist

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about um about how kids might and this doesn’t go for everyone of course like I

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I don’t want to bash on traditional schooling or anything but a lot of kids might learn better in an unstructured

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environment where they’re allowed to uh you know learn things that they’re intrinsically interested in as opposed

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to being assigned with something evaluated and tested um that traditional kind of model of

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learning um so the kids are we’re really enjoying this kind of uh approach

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to education the kids are learning a ton um my daughter’s a a a voracious reader

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she’s reading like a book every couple of nights chapter book every couple of nights um so but they’re really uh doing

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well with it I don’t think uh I don’t think that they’re struggling in any way with that part that’s awesome that’s

24:36

awesome yeah it sounds like you’re moving more with their natural rhythms and flows and again it’s like that that bonding right like you’re their dad and

24:43

you’re their teacher and the and you’re the bus driver right you’re yeah that part’s challenging uh

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the driving we talked about being in the camper with with two young kids but driving towing a 36 foot fifth wheel

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behind you uh with two kids in the car is is its own thing yeah that’s a little

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bit stressful because you need to have the Focus right so you don’t to be like pulling on the steering wheeler yeah

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it’s uh that’s a I have a I have a completely new respect for truckers and what they do um because it is draining

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to drive with a large trailer behind you um you know everyone’s on their cell

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phones everyone’s cutting you off um you can’t stop very quickly and so anytime something weird looks like it’s going to

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happen you go into panic mode um so it’s a a very draining uh experience driving

25:34

with this thing and then the one advantage truckers have is they usually don’t have a six and an eight-year-old

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in the back uh in the back seat having an argument or yelling about their snack that fell on the ground or something

25:45

like that right they don’t have that the distraction yeah it is tough you know um

25:51

you know we talked before before we were pre-recording of mindfulness and meditation right and this present moment

25:57

thing I I just keep seeing that pop up again and again and again throughout your story um how does that play into

26:04

your adventure here so I uh I got into mindful meditation through um learning a type of

26:11

therapy called acceptance and commitment therapy or act which I’m sure has been talked about at some point on the podcast um it’s a really

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incredible therapy and more than that like kind of a a way of conceptualizing cases that I think is really powerful um

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anyway it’s a mindfulness-based type of therapy and so I got into it through that um and and then at my VA there was

26:35

only a couple of us there who were practicing mindfulness um uh you know U

26:40

using it in treatment with veterans and so um so I kind of became the go-to person for mindfulness stuff there doing

26:47

presentations to other staff around the hospital and running groups and that kind of thing um and then uh you know in

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the years when I started planning this trip I started to really kind of shift my focus towards uh the nature side of

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things and using nature for psychological healing and the two just kind of uh you know paired up perfectly

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because it it’s not just the the physically being out in the woods that suddenly makes you uh heal or causes

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some kind of improvement but it’s also the the fact that nature uh it sort of

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draws you into the present moment in a really powerful way that that not a lot

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of other things can and so uh so that you know the two really went together

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for me and then once I started this trip you know personally uh the mindfulness

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has has played a big role because we’re seeing all kinds of really incredible things but they can sort of fly right by

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you with all the the stress of traveling and driving and so uh if you’re not slowing down and getting present you’re

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looking at something like the Grand Canyon um or you’re looking at El Capitan or something like that um you

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can just kind of look up and be like oh that’s cool wow it’s really high but like if uh if you’re able to pause and

28:03

really soak up that experience you are connecting with it in a deeper way and

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so the mindfulness I think has like Amplified the experience of this trip yeah I notic that with a lot of nature

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trips that I do especially these like big Vistas like you said the Grand Canyon or Alcan it takes a while for my

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brain to even process what I’m looking at and if I just move forward I don’t get any feeling right I’m just like oh

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yeah like whatever right but if I can sit and saying like oh wow like the light is different over there or oh

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there’s a whole bunch of little trees down there oh that’s the house over there right where it’s really like trying to take in like three-dimensional

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layers of it all I think especially you know my work is all computer now like I

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feel like it flattens things right like I’m looking at this thing that is like miles of view distance and it feels like

28:49

a postcard like it feels like it’s a flat thing yeah I have to really just like take a moment breathe and and feel

28:54

into it you know yeah I hear that you want hear a funny story um so speaking of education and all that with the kids

29:00

and with ourselves you know we’re learning really interesting stuff um whenever we go to these national parks

29:06

and uh these cool places um so the uh the Spanish con conquistadors who first

29:15

uh walked up onto the edge of the Grand Canyon um there’s literally a quote and I don’t remember the exact wording but

29:21

it was something like this is a useless Chasm uh for which no one no uh I think

29:27

think they had said no white person will ever return to and there will be no use for it in in the future and so I

29:34

remember reading that I was reading a book in preparation as we were getting there and I was just like wow how talk

29:39

about not being mindful talking about being shortsighted they were trying to look for the the city of gold or

29:45

something like that and this was in their way um I couldn’t even imagine it

29:50

says a lot though about the value of being Mindful and open to your experience if if you’re too

29:56

single-minded and you’re trying to get to the city of gold and you come across the Grand Canyon which now millions of

30:01

people go to just to look at it because it’s so beautiful uh and your response is this is a useless Chasm um I think

30:09

that speaks to how powerful uh that mindset can be totally yeah like just a

30:15

hole in the ground like why would anyone want to do there’s no resources here there’s no reason um and I think it

30:20

dubils back into masculinity because I think a lot of guys struggle and I did you know for a lot of My Life um still

30:27

of acknowledging Beauty like like you said really take a moment to feel and and be be touched by the world you know

30:34

allow themselves to have emotional experiences out there in the world do you see that with some of the work that you do or in yourself absolutely yeah so

30:41

um I think there’s a there’s a certain mindset with some men uh sort of

30:47

unhealthy mindset that a relationship with nature that’s about conquering rather than connecting with or being

30:54

touched by Beauty um and that’s that’s got a long interesting history too um

31:00

you know with how the US was settled and and and even things like uh when Mount

31:06

Everest was was climbed for the first time the language that’s used is about conquering it right and like uh and if

31:12

that’s how you feel about the natural world um that’s going to play out in your in your life and and

31:19

psychologically uh you’re sort of at war with the the world outside of you

31:24

absolutely yeah and just to build on that I think it brings up a l loneliness in guys right because they have that lone soldier mentality or that hyper

31:31

competitiveness where they feel like it’s them versus everything and just kind of like those Kors were saying

31:38

right like things in their lives is either an obstacle or an asset right either for me or against me this is very

31:45

white thinking that I think on like a huge scale for them they probably were thinking like oh how how could this have

31:51

happened to me look how big this this Canyon is right like this hole is so big how are we going to get around it’s going to really delay our timeline here

31:58

because we can’t see the end of it right yeah super inconvenient for me right

32:03

yeah whereas now with beauty it’s like whoa it’s so beautiful you can’t even see the end of it that’s crazy yeah yeah

32:10

yeah so I’m curious right as we move into our break here what have you felt and um you done this work like what has

32:16

shifted within you what do you think you’re bringing back into the default World whenever you decide to

32:22

return I think um back to what I was talking about earlier that like forgiveness for not always being ultr

32:30

productive um is something that I’m going to try to hold on to um just

32:35

slowing things down in general because working in a conventional job everything’s so fast-paced you have a

32:42

weekend off or a vacation you gotta milk every second of it and and it’s gone

32:47

before you know it and uh so another thing I’ve learned on this trip I’m going to try to hold on to is just

32:52

literally slowing down even with my physical movement I noticed early in this trip that like like when there’s

32:59

nothing for me to be rushing around for I’m still W speed walking around and I’m and I’m like dropping things and and so

33:07

uh so slowing down uh as difficult as it is is something that has changed that

33:12

this chip trip changed in me and like I hope to hold on to yeah I think that’s really wise right

33:20

I’m noticing how Rush feels like I I hate feeling rushed because that’s when yeah that’s when the mistakes happen

33:26

that’s when like you know go in the wrong direction or make an impulsive decision um so I try to have my life not

33:33

have a lot of Rush in it and when I do I don’t have a lot of talent for that nowadays yeah but yeah I love that idea

33:40

oh good it’s it’s interesting how uh like slowing down ends up meaning less mistakes anyway right so like you think

33:46

you’re getting more done by being quicker and faster uh you’re creating more work by making the wrong decisions

33:53

maybe in a hurry um or or messing something up right yeah and it’s just it’s just

33:58

scattered right and something I’ve learned some of my nature connection stuff is that nature is not rushed right

34:04

like stuff might feel like it comes out of nowhere but if you pay attention it’s been happening right it’s all flows and

34:09

Cycles even like a weather system if you pay attention you can see if it’s coming you know yeah yeah so nature moves at

34:16

its own pace that’s for sure another thing I think that draws that that mindful State out of people when they’re

34:22

in nature yeah because it’s in action right like it’s it’s never static always

34:27

moving um so yeah when we come back we’re going to to our final commercial break here when we come back we’ll talk

34:33

uh to you the listeners about ways that you can slow down be more mindful appreciate nature um and some just

34:38

introspective things to think about um as you’re considering you know changing your lifestyle around um so thanks for

34:45

tuning in and we’ll see you on the other side of the commercial [Music]

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podcast.com now back to the men’s therapy podcast welcome back to the show I’m sitting

37:21

here with Randall Wilson and we’re talking about slowing down being Mindful and being in nature and Rand we were

37:26

chatting a little bit right over this break and I want to hear some stories uh that illustrate this stuff right some

37:32

stories that inspired you to appreciate beauty or snapped you into the present moment or a moment with your kids that

37:38

really touched you um what are some of that are that are getting in you know yeah so um so it’s difficult to kind of

37:46

uh to um single out places or or events on the trip but I I try to make mental

37:52

notes because that’s one of the biggest uh most common questions we get what was your favorite spots that everybody wants to know and like uh my answer is always

38:00

like um favorite spot for what purpose I guess like uh like most um a inspiring

38:07

and beautiful that’s like yose Grand Canyon um those are the ones so far that

38:13

just were stunning and left us kind of speechless just looking at them um but

38:19

then like uh so our what my wife and I both say has been our hands down our favorite spot though is uh is the

38:25

Redwood forests um the national and state parks and uh there was something

38:30

um the interesting thing is you know it’s mainly just Forest like really

38:36

dense damp um forest and it has these absolutely enormous mindboggling uh

38:44

trees in them obviously um but it’s it’s a very like simple recipe in the Redwood

38:51

Forest but for for both of us um uh it was a pretty spiritual experience I’d

38:58

say like you’re in this Forest that’s uh that’s ancient and uh you know an old

39:03

growth forest and you can just feel that when you’re inside of it um and then

39:09

you’re walking you know you’re walking amongst these trees that you have to like you know arch your head completely

39:14

back to even see the top of them um there’s something just really special about walking through that that old sort

39:22

of wise uh type of forest with the the quiet that goes on in that kind of

39:28

forest um all the life springing up all over the place it’s just so much variety

39:34

um and so I’d say that location overall touched us uh the most

39:41

deeply and and was the one that I think about most often and want to get back to

39:46

at some point yeah when I think about the I’ve spent some time in those Force too and it’s just it really has

39:53

interconnectedness right and for me the sense of scale that you talked aled about and the kind of insignificance of

39:59

human life you know being like who these things have been here for hundreds of years and I’m just like this like little ant walking through this Forest um yeah

40:06

surrounded by all this growth and and life and you know I’ve done a lot of nature stuff and the Rood Forest is one

40:13

of the places that it feels safe which is wild right yeah like it feels very

40:18

homey it feels very kind of like close it’s very just like kind like nuzzles you a little bit um I’ve been on other

40:24

you know I’m sure you’ve been to other places like feel dangerous right they feel wild they feel like oh my God I could hurt myself Grizzlies in in the

40:31

Redwoods I don’t think so that helps yeah yeah and it just everything just feels like soft like everything’s got

40:37

Moss on it you know like there’s like always a water feature nearby like I’ve I’ve always felt really safe in those

40:43

types of um yeah verus yeah some of the more hostile environments like it doesn’t feel hostile at all it just feels like very welcoming and and yeah

40:50

wise and peace peaceful super peaceful um so and and

40:55

speaking of uh you know like all the life there um and we’re talking about uh

41:01

you know memorable things on this trip um an interesting thing that’s come up from being in all these uh really

41:08

beautiful natural places is like uh our kids are getting exposed to um life and

41:15

death basically like the the full process and that means like lots of questions um they’re learning you know

41:22

in the visitor centers and national parks about this process and and so um I’m remembering uh one conversation I

41:29

was having with my kids about this uh in the Redwood Forest um and I don’t

41:34

remember how we got on to the topic but we were talking about like you know one day you guys can come back here and and

41:42

probably see a lot of these same trees um you know maybe even after mama and

41:48

papa are gone basically like when you’re grown up and you’re adults this is a place you can come back to and you can

41:54

connect with us in in a very real way like we were here and and we are sort of

41:59

part of this Forest also in a very real way um and so like you know they’re six

42:06

and eight and so I don’t know how much of that they’re going to hold on to but I hope that when they grow up that they can come revisit some of these places

42:13

and if they’re when we’re gone if they’re missing us that they can visit these places and and visit us in a way

42:20

yeah I think that’s that’s lovely right and like and even just bringing back to beginning with having your father on the trip and the form of ases right yeah I’m

42:27

having them really connect with that there is this you really beautiful pairing of both grief and celebration

42:33

sounds like that you’ve been kind of weaving in and out of yeah and you know my dad um we’ve sort of raised our kids

42:42

to have a deep appreciation for nature and connection with nature and part of that part of how we help them cope with

42:49

um with losing my dad is is to talk about this topic that like he um you

42:54

know not in a not in a woo uh sort of like um Supernatural way but in a very

43:01

real way um he is now a part of all of this and and and every beautiful Vista

43:08

that you see and in this forest and all of that like he’s sort of um become part of that again and so so you can connect

43:16

with him really anywhere through nature and uh you know sunset or a beautiful forest or a a beautiful Canyon River

43:24

whatever it is yeah and they’ve gotten a lot out of that and they’ll they’ll you know bring that up sometimes if they see

43:31

something really beautiful um they’ll say oh that’s potty so we had they my

43:36

daughter created a really strange name for my dad she called him potty not to be confused with potty but poy um and

43:43

it’s stuck and so anyway they say uh they say oh look at this Sunset poty made for us um which is really touching

43:50

for me and I think it’s really helped them heal after losing him that’s really

43:55

quick that’s really cute it’s really sweet um as we move towards the end of the segment here I’m curious for our

44:01

listeners what would you recommend for someone who wants to feel some of these things or wants to tap into some of

44:06

these things and maybe can’t travel you know in the same way like what are some things that they could do tomorrow to

44:13

start to feel more Mindful and more present yeah so I’m very conscious of that I feel like if everyone could um be

44:21

able to somehow uh get out and adventure and do this kind of thing they could get a lot of a lot of growth a lot of

44:26

healing out of it but it’s just not possible for many people and I’m very grateful that we’re able to do it um and

44:33

so uh what I talk with clients about I do mostly virtual work on the road um

44:39

and basically like you know almost like anything else with setting goals in therapy if you break it down small

44:45

enough into small enough pieces you can still get you know the essence of what we’re going for here and so if it’s

44:51

connection with nature and being mindful in nature um it could be as simple as

44:57

like going out in your backyard if you have a backyard or just going out into some green space around you and and

45:04

sitting and connecting with with the things around you in a very basic

45:10

mindful way and so um so I do exercises sometimes with clients where it’s like

45:16

uh before our session go outside and grab any natural object out of your yard it might be a pine cone or a rock or a

45:23

shell or something like that um in Florida you find shells in the soil so

45:28

that’s why that might not make sense but there’s uh it’s actually shells in people’s backyards in Florida um and so

45:35

anyway uh we’ll do we’ll do some mindful meditation where we’re literally just holding the object and studying it um

45:43

you know very closely and and looking at all the intricate details and sort of

45:49

fostering like an appreciation for that thing and in the the simplest objects you see all of the the Beauty and the

45:56

patterns of nature that are in the big Grand objects like in the national parks and things like that this is just a

46:03

smaller version of that you know yeah just the microcosm of that right like

46:08

yeah like looking at a rock you can see all the different Speckles and the textures and all of that right in that rock that you would just kick down the

46:14

road right you wouldn’t even notice most of the time yeah so and that’s that’s a how you say that that’s kind of an

46:20

experience that people end up having towards the end like wow like this is this thing’s pretty cool I didn’t think

46:26

like I’d be that interested in it um but anything that nature produces is is like

46:32

that for the most part it’s an infinite amount of variety um it’s all interesting it’s all beautiful if you

46:38

just slow down and really take it in fully and mindfully yeah it’s just it’s fractal

46:44

right it’s just infinite no matter how deep you go um so I’m curious Rand what’s the plan for the rest of the trip

46:50

do you do you have a set end date where are you headed next what are you going to bring back like where did your story go from here yeah so we uh so our our

46:57

YouTube channel is called the wandering home and we’ve kind of lived up to that name by literally wandering around the

47:02

country we’ve had like a uh a general um Loop that we did the whole Southern

47:08

border the whole West Northwest came back down through Wyoming Colorado um

47:13

and now we’re up in the Northeast uh you can see some like some tree some Leaf colors behind us there um hitting our

47:20

first real significant cold on the trip um but as far as like uh the end date

47:26

we’re probably going to do this a bit longer maybe six months um we’ll see and

47:34

then and then our goal um see the other reason I came up with

47:39

that name wandering home is because the sort of side goal of this trip is to find where we want to settle so like uh

47:45

you know wandering to our future home basically um and so I think uh in about six months or so uh spring or summer

47:53

we’re going to start circling around some potential candidates for places locations that we might want to settle

48:00

um and at the same time we’re completely open we might go longer if we’re just we seem to be getting more and more

48:06

comfortable with this lifestyle the longer we do it so at first we were like okay let’s just do our year and see

48:12

everything and this is a little too stressful Let’s uh now we’re kind of getting into a Groove where we might go

48:18

a little bit longer I don’t know yeah are there any places that you feel like being called to settle like anything

48:23

that calls your name well we so this is a uh a touchy uh if any of my family

48:30

listens to this podcast we’ve got my wife’s side of the family my side of the family and both are sort of uh vying for

48:36

us to to land near them um we do want to be in the vicinity of family we don’t

48:42

want to have to travel real far um but uh a couple of places you know I I

48:49

really have always loved um anywhere in the Appalachians and so like I grew up

48:55

camping in the Poconos um when I was in Florida we would go yearly get a cabin in uh in the Blue Ridge Mountains in

49:02

Georgia um I feel really at home there um we might not end up being able to do

49:08

that if we want to be close to family and so um we might also wife’s familyes all in Missouri we might kind of check

49:14

out um northern AR Arkansas is a is sort of a hidden gym in terms of Nature and

49:21

Beauty there and uh not too overly populated and I don’t think everyone’s discovered that yet um and so uh so

49:30

we’re kind of we’re staying wide open with that and we’re g to stay in places a little bit longer to see where we feel

49:36

like we might find community and what really feels like home yeah yeah I’m

49:42

curious kind of final question here is have you met any other families that are doing this too like do you that on the

49:48

same Mission yeah I’m glad you asked that because that’s been one of the one of the surprise uh uh one of the the

49:55

biggest surprises and like most rewarding parts of this trip um right off the bat I think we were three weeks

50:01

into into the trip we met a a a full-time family it’s called um who was

50:06

uh started off in Portland they’ haded been doing it for two and a half years so they were Pros so so we were just

50:11

learning as much as we can from them traveled with them for about a month um and then we we met another family um uh

50:19

in the US from Canada and um the case’s uh I I’ll ask them to listen to this so

50:26

because they’re going to want to uh hear about our friendship being talked about on this podcast we like we um we just

50:33

fell in love with this family they were they were like uh the sweetest people um

50:38

they started their trip with a two-month old baby so like I’m I’m complaining about it being loud with two kids

50:44

they’ve got they had three and one of them is two months old um so they were really courageous I think to do that and

50:51

we traveled with them for about a month also and we we found that like this whole experience gets made even better

50:59

when you’ve got someone to travel with like that and share the experiences with and sit out by the campfire with make

51:05

each other you know take turns making dinner and stuff like that um that’s that’s been really amazing and like

51:12

we’re always kind of hoping for when we’re going to run into the next family that we link up with yeah that that’s

51:19

awesome AR to that metaphor of kind of life being walking each other home right walking next to each other for a while

51:24

and then splitting off PS you really got to experience that literally right being

51:30

aligned with somebody other family and then moving um yeah yeah that was a a really sad departure because we were up

51:36

in uh we were in um northern Washington and they had to their time in the US was running out they had to go back and so

51:43

and they were going to be done with the full-time traveling so we we kind of were grieving with them a little bit um

51:49

but then of course the beauty of uh technology nowadays is like we’re in touch with them all the time we video

51:54

chat with them we’re going to meet back up at some point and the first family is still going we’re definitely going to

52:00

meet back up with them at some point fin get Char intercept course yeah so yeah this was great a lot of moments as I’m

52:05

reflecting on this episode of like Beauty little touching moments um and I think that’s really speaks to how you

52:12

and your family are doing this intentionally and mindfully and feeling into um some of those deeper

52:17

undercurrents right the emotional thread there yeah so yeah if people want to learn more about you and your family

52:23

where can they find you online so uh I kind of separated my my psychology mindfulness stuff from our Travel

52:29

Channel on YouTube We’re the wandering home uh with ath in the beginning of it

52:35

there’s a Wandering home it’s not us um and then uh I’m also on um Tik Tok and

52:40

YouTube and and uh Instagram just as Dr Rand Wilson and uh tril therapy on Tik

52:46

Tok um and so on there my main thing is I do uh I do these short clips while I’m

52:52

out hiking talk about um mindfulness meditation talk about psychology you

52:57

know related ideas and topics and usually relating to Nature um so that’s

53:03

kind of my uh my my professional side of things the wandering homes like our travel and natural beauty side of things

53:11

awesome well yeah guys check it out and Rand I’m excited to meet you and I’m excited to see where your story goes from here that sounds like this is like

53:17

an incredible kind of made in voyage for you and your family um yeah if you’re listening thank you so much for tuning

53:22

in and we’ll see you next week on another episode of The Men’s Day [Music]

53:29

podcast thank you for joining your host mark aile on the men’s therapy podcast

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