In this episode returning guest, Jim Benson, presents a holistic view of male sexuality. We dive into the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of sex and sexuality.
Intro: [00:00:00] Mark Azulay is an industry leader in psychotherapy and men’s mental health. He’s helped countless guys get back on their feet, deepen their relationships, and excel in their lives. Now he’s taken all that he has learned and is sharing it with you. In each episode, Mark will interview an expert in the field of masculinity and men’s work.
We’ll cover topics such as emotional intelligence, masculine identity. Anger management, financial health, trauma recovery, marriage and divorce, ethics, and spirituality tune in and become a better man.
Mark: Welcome back to men’s therapy podcast. I’m here with Jim Benson. He’s returning guests. Uh, you were back on, we were called from the ashes and we talked about male sexuality, male sexual health, and specifically about becoming multi orgasmic.
Um, so I’m really happy to have you back to kind of take a holistic view of sex and sexual health, especially [00:01:00] from the male perspective, because what I appreciate with you and your colleagues, Susan Branton that comes on the show a fair amount to that, like, we just need to talk about this stuff openly, honestly, and with just education, you know, um, having it not just based off of learning off of porn or learning from a locker room talk.
So, Jim, welcome back to the show.
Jim Benson: Thanks, Mark. Really appreciate that. And yeah, that just makes me think of what a different world we’d be living in if we got some really helpful sex education when we were teenagers. I don’t mean like going to the class and learning about body parts and like, okay, this is really what’s going on.
Sex, sex and relationship coaching is if you were getting that when you were a teenager. Like coming into puberty and, you know, had all these questions, I felt like there was a place you could get answers. That would be great. But, you know, that’s not, that’s not our point right now. But I’m just, as you spoke that I’m thinking, God, what a gap in our, in our culture.
Mark: A huge gap, right? And it’s like, I mean, we’re not saying anything new here, but like, our life is so sexualized, right? I mean, [00:02:00] sex sells. It’s everywhere. And yet there’s no real education about it. And it’s also such a key part of being human. I mean, procreation is maybe like the most human thing we do, right?
Like, just passing the genes on and connecting to another man. I am, um, excited because we were talking before about kind of taking a holistic view. Right? So let’s give our listeners kind of some of that sexual education that we’re chatting about. Um, so let’s start with physical. Right? What would you say about kind of the physical aspects of sex?
Um. Before you get into kind of the more mental, emotional, or even spiritual components.
Jim Benson: Yeah, you know, I think those, we just talked about the four, four possible components and physical is certainly one of them. If we kind of use that as a grant, a grant, a ground floor, maybe a base for everything. Um, and also just to know that.
We’re, we’re parsing things out right now. It’s really kind of a unified whole. It’s all, it’s a unified universe and we’re unified beings, um, within that, but for clarity sake, or just for us to learn a little bit more, we’re parsing some things out. So we’re [00:03:00] pulling out to talk about the physical right now, even though it’s all interconnected.
I just wanted to have that as our. Beginning statement here. Um, so at the physical level, I mean, there are a lot of things that we’re talking about, like, are you, or just physically in shape, um, is your body experiencing a lot of stress because of work? Uh, what’s your diet like? Um, what are you, what are you doing?
How, how are you inhabiting your body? How are you, uh, experiencing yourself as a human doing in this world, being and doing. So there’s that. Um, And then it’s more sexually oriented if we, because it’s again, this is our focus right now. What are you doing sexually? Are you masturbating to a lot of porn? Are you ejaculating a lot?
Are you, um, doing any kind of conscious sexual practice as a way of bringing more awakeness, aliveness, um, [00:04:00] congruency inside of yourself? Right? Because if If you feel like, well, my only outlet or the only thing I can do to really go to sleep at night is to ejaculate and that’s what I do is kind of my, I’m, I got to release some of the stress that I’ve had during the day.
And this is, this is my pattern is this is what I’m going to do. And it doesn’t have to be that way. There are other things you can do. For instance, you could do some practices where this is what I teach, right? In my multi orgasmic lover program, you can do practices where you’re doing some breathing and you’re, you’re, you’re learning to channel that sexual energy, which tends to come out in an, in an ejaculation and you’re moving it up through your body or you’re doing some shaking, what I call streaming process, you’re doing bodily shaking.
To music where you’re, um, you’re dispersing some of that energy, but at the same time, you’re clearing blocks in your body and your physical body and you’re creating pathways for energy to move up your body. [00:05:00] Um, so it doesn’t feel like it’s compelled to come out as an ejaculation. So those are just some of the ideas that I, I have for like, how to go, how can we start at this ground floor and make it the best, you know, the best base going forward that you can.
Mark: Yeah, there’s a lot of good stuff in there. And I want to just kind of dig into some of the examples that you brought up. Um, I guess starting with what you ended with this idea of moving sexual energy physically. I am so curious, like. What is horniness? Right? And this is, you know, something about me. I don’t find horniness to be comfortable or to be exciting.
Right? It’s something, I think a lot of guys feel this way too. Like, to discharge, like you said. Through ejaculation, through sex, through porn use. Like, it is not a feeling of pleasure. Power or comfort, right? It’s like, oh, shit. Let me just like, get let me deal with this. Right? Um, so yeah, I guess it’s like riff on that.
Like what physically what is going on? Um, and yeah, maybe give some example how [00:06:00] to work through it differently or how to reframe
Jim Benson: it. Yeah, I mean, there’s a couple of factors that we could talk about. 1 is. Probably it’s just in your DNA as a male. And it’s like, my job is to procreate and create more humans on this planet.
It’s like, this is a fundamental drive, right? There’s that we could call that horniness, right? At some level. Um, there’s also the fact that you have a lot of testosterone in your system and the testosterone wants to do something like fuck or kill,
Mark: basically,
Jim Benson: there’s not a lot. Of subtlety there. And so the, the challenge you’re experiencing is there’s this welling up of fuck kill thing that comes up in you.
And let’s just focus on the fuck side of things. And there’s the, that’s the horniness part. And it’s combining with your DNA and you’re like, must do something with this energy. Um, if you If you consider that there [00:07:00] might be another alternative than to actually have to find something to fuck or to discharge that, if you treat it almost like, you know, the internal family systems work, it’s treating it as a part of self.
So for instance, I just named mine the fuck monster. Because that’s all it wants to do and it will, it’s, it’s scanning the environment constantly for fuckability. It’s to say, what, what is there that I could fuck? Yeah. Right. Like. I imagine this is resonating with, with men who are listening to this, right?
They’re like, something about this. It’s like, right. Yeah. Okay. I’ve got a fuck monster too. Now what? Well, bringing it up to the level of consciousness where you’re treating it as a part of self, as opposed to just pushing it down, being like, I don’t know why I was like this, this kind of low level, it turns into anxiety.
Right. If you’re not managing it. So [00:08:00] managing it means you’re, you’re breathing it, you’re appreciating the feminine bodies or masculine, depending on your preference, but you’re, you’re appreciating what you’re seeing as a sexual creature. And you’re like, that is, that’s like a beautiful sunset or a flower.
And I still want to, you know, destroy it, kill it, have my way with it. There’s that. So now you’re managing it with your breath, you’re working with mindfulness around it, you’re, um, you’re bringing that fuck monster part, whatever you want to call it personally, to a level of consciousness where now you can actually appreciate it as a part of self and be like, yes, I embrace you.
This is, this is an aspect of my masculinity and society may be. Crushing, you know, crushing it down like, Oh man, you can’t do that. Me too. Or, you know, whatever the thing is, you got to respect the woman. Yes, you can respect the woman, but you have to respect the fact that there is this aspect of yourself and it wants to come [00:09:00] up and out.
So the mindfulness, mindful awareness of this process of this part is huge. Is that like, this is a first step is that yeah,
Mark: that definitely answers the question. And I think when we go into mental, I want to revisit this, right? Especially this idea of, I think a lot of guys that I speak with in therapy, they don’t want to be predators, right?
They don’t want to, they, they try to tamp down that aggression and it often results in, you know, erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation or some kind of like, just like the wires get crossed. Right. And it’s just like, I don’t really know what to do. Um, but to stay on physical, I had another question I want to back up.
So we talked about diet and exercise. Right? Um, and again, right? Like, there’s so many dudes out there that are ashamed of their bodies or that are in, you know, a tense state. And I was doing some of your program. I know you have physical, like pelvic floor exercises and things that can actually physically open up, you know, that sexual channel or shocker or however you frame it.
Um, so I’m one, I’m curious about that because, you know, something that I heard from when I was doing, um, [00:10:00] sex therapy with, with my, uh, fiance was that when a person is getting touched, they feel themselves, right? So like if my partner’s touching me and I feel a lot of tension and pain in my body, when he touches me, I’m going to feel tension and pain.
Because she’s bringing my awareness into what’s already happening with me. Um, so that was a really big eye opener and kind of brought my, um, view on like, okay, I do have 10 spots. I do have sore spots. I do have spots where I’m clenching or I’m tight. And if I don’t work on that for myself. Right. I’m never gonna be able to sexually perform.
I’m never gonna enjoy sex because I have a lot of just, I’m carrying a lot of physical pain. I see you nodding a lot. So, yeah, take it away. Like, what’s your, what’s your view on that? Right. Kind of that muscle tension aspect. Right.
Jim Benson: I love the fact that the awareness is brought when somebody else is touching you.
And for so many guys, they don’t have that awareness and touching themselves. Touching yourself means, Oh, I’m going to masturbate and ejaculate. That’s what it means. As opposed to [00:11:00] the first module of my program, it’s self massage. We’re going to, we’re going to explore my own body. What does turn me on?
Where are my places of tension? And because, um, it’s so important to understand your, Own semantics and where you’re blocked. And then we’re going to get into this when we talk about emotional blocks too, because there’s places in your body. I mean, you’re, uh, maybe you’re a Wilhelm Reich fan as well. Or, but you’ve, you’ve studied his whole, um, model of orgasmic energy.
And there’s, you know, places that’s blocked. It’s just brilliant work, right? And a hundred years ago, it was amazing what, what’s there. So we’ll come, we’ll come to that. But there are physical places where. We tend to hold tension, and it’s going to be your pelvic floor. It’s probably in your solar plexus, you know, maybe some in your belly too.
It’s going to be in your, in your heart, in your heart area. There’s going to be blockage in your throat, right? There’s this like common places where all of us are holding tension. [00:12:00] And depending on your wounding or your makeup, your physical makeup that you came into this world with, you’re going to have a more pronounced blockages in those areas, in particular areas.
So what’s the practice? Like who’s going to help you heal that? You can do some yourself, but like you said, Mark, there’s just, um, When somebody else is touching you, that’s why if you can get some kind of healing touch work on your physical body, I know for me, um, when I started, uh, doing a lot of personal growth, I noticed that I had a lot of tension in my solar plexus, and I went to an energy healer, someone who had been trained with a school of healing, and.
She did work on my solar plexus and she’s like, Oh, yeah, there’s a lot of your mom in your solar plexus. And I was like, you think, is that what’s going on in there? And so it probably took six months of, you know, regular meetings and sessions where she’s like doing all that stuff to clear. [00:13:00] Mom out of my solar plexus because I was still like, you could say, corded to her, some kind of umbilical to mom.
And, um, I’m, I’m building my life according to what I thought was right based on mom’s perspective. So the clearing that out and every time she did it, I would just cry and cry because I was so, there was so much emotion tied up in that. So. But at the end result, I’m like, Oh, wow. Now I have more free flowing energy that I can move through my body.
That’s doesn’t feel like it’s hitting a major rock or whatever, a beaver dam, locking up this stream. And now I, now I have more free flow of energy. So that was huge for me to start doing that kind of work.
Mark: Yeah, I think it’s really important what you’re talking about. And, you know, for the guys out there, relatable, um, and Eli has had this experience of going to the gym or working out hard and then crying, right?
Or feeling like fear or feeling nervous or something where it’s like, whoa, like, why am I feeling this? Emotion like, where’s this emotion coming up? [00:14:00] And just like you’re saying, Jim, right? This stuff lives in our bodies, especially on the edges of a range of motion. You know, um, I remember for me when I was getting into lifting, my squat depth was not was horrible, right?
My hips were very, very tight. And when I would start to low squat, I would hit terror. Right. And like, part of that is the body saying, Hey, don’t go lower because you might get injured. Right. But part of that is also just a lifetime of just bound up intention and, you know, squatting and having your hips be free are very important when you’re having sex.
So if I’m doing a certain sexual position and I’m pushing that range of motion, that fear came up. Two, right? So for you guys out there doing stuff like Jim saying, energy healing or acupuncture or massage or working out or yoga, anything that just starts to kind of move that a range of motion and gets you comfortable to being on those edges is going to help in the bedroom.
I think substantially, you know?
Jim Benson: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. Um, what are, where, what is your edge? Because if, if you’re, if you’re into lifting and you’re [00:15:00] going to the gym, there might be an edge for you to just to go to a yoga class. If you’re doing, if you’re doing yoga and other things, Oh, maybe there’s a, there’s things you could do that might even be edgier than that.
So for me, it was starting to do contact improvisation. And I would do it on my own, but the big inflatable balls, you know, these physio balls and there’s workouts you can do with those, but I was draping myself over them. I’m sitting on one right now. It’s my desk chair, but you could drape over it. You’re arching your back.
You’re rolling side to side. It’s like a it’s a full body opening experience. And so that’s where you start to find. Um, your edges. So there’s so much that you’re doing, let’s say in the lifting where it’s all very vertical and, you know, you, you notice your hips because they’re flexing that way. And then yoga, you’re going to start doing postures and you’re holding those and you’re finding your edge.
Right. But now you’re doing this other thing. What’s like, you know, full three 60 proprioceptive in, you know, in motion. You’re like, Oh, Oh, there it is. Like arching back. Uh, I’d really don’t want to let my head [00:16:00] go. And I’m like, right, how do I not let my head go? So it becomes an inquiry, right? To watching what your edge is when you’re, when you’re moving around in space like that.
So that’s just something I, it was at the very beginning of my journey here. And, um, I still do it because it’s so revealing to me about where my edge is.
Mark: Yeah. I love that suggestion. You know, when I think of like the best lovemaking experiences that I’ve had, they’ve been very fluid experiences, right?
Like, just like you’re talking about very flowy experiences, uh, like a flow state, right? It hasn’t been kind of the vertical jackhammer, you know, rigid, you know, doing a bunch of reps experiences, right? Didn’t you learn about
Jim Benson: how to have sex with porn? I mean, that’s what they do in porn, right? Go on.
Mark: Right.
Exactly. Yeah. It’s just like hammer, hammer time. Right. And then it’s over. Um, but it’s not very improvisational, like you say. So I’m loving this conversation. We’re going to move to our first commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about the mental and [00:17:00] emotional side. Um, about, you know, some barriers that people might have, and also I like, like the way you’re providing some suggestions about how to work through and be aware of those barriers.
Um, so you got to get a lot of value. This hang on in there and we’ll see you on the other side,
Ad: follow voice America at facebook. com forward slash voice America for juicy updates from your favorite radio shows and podcasts.
Intro: Men’s Therapy Online is now accepting new members. Men’s Therapy Online offers a solution to the lack of outlets for emotional expression, positive role models, and access to meaningful milestone experiences.
In our post COVID world, loneliness is at an all time high. Men need consistent community. Our society is rapidly changing. Old models of masculinity are falling at the task of promoting emotional intelligence and meaningful [00:18:00] connection. Men’s Therapy Online offers two. who is struggling to balance traditional male roles and emotional fluidity.
Whether you need to get back on your feet, or take your life to the next level, Men’s Therapy Online has your back. We help our members become a true, twenty first century man, a man who is not burdened by the rapid change of society, but who contributes to it honorably. If you’re interested in signing up and finding your band of brothers, go to menstherapy.
online to learn more. That’s menstherapy. online. Start your journey today.
It’s your world.
Mark: Motivate. Change. Succeed. VoiceAmericaEmpowerment. com
Intro: You are listening to the Men’s Therapy Podcast with Mark Azulay. To reach the show [00:19:00] today, please call 1 888 346 9141. That’s 1 888 346 9141. Or send an email to podcast at menstherapy. online. Online or visit www dot men’s therapy podcast.com. Now back to the Men’s Therapy podcast.
Mark: Welcome back to the show.
I’m here with Jim Benson, and we’re talking about a holistic view of sexual health, um, specifically as it relates to men and looking at the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual side. So in this segment, we’re gonna dig into the mental and emotional. Um, I wanna start, Jim, how do you make that distinction?
And I know they’re connected, but I’m curious, like where we draw a line between mental and emotional.
Jim Benson: I’m, um, again, yeah, they are really connected. Um, for me, I think, uh, sometimes One will trigger a reaction in the other. So for instance, if you’re Let’s say you’re undressing with a partner, um, [00:20:00] and you’re having some kind of performance anxiety moment, we’re calling it performance anxiety.
I prefer to drop that whole performance word out of the So just sexual anxiety. And uh, your clothes are coming off, you’re like, oh, I’m having some body shame or whatever. So you’re That’s a mental, that’s usually a thought that comes in like, Oh shit. What if she sees my, you know, small penis or what if, uh, what if I won’t be able to get hard with her?
Like, so there’s a, there’s a mental process, right? And then that triggers some kind of emotional response, some kind of shame perhaps, or a feeling of not good enough or feeling of. Um, competition with some imaginary other male or whatever, so there’s some, something gets happened emotionally for you around that fear.
So I’m going to fear shame. But it’s also the opposite. You can also have a wave of shame. You don’t even know what that is. Or something comes in. You’re like, Whoa, that’s a, that’s an intense feeling. And then your mind kind of scrambles to [00:21:00] try to locate it in space. Or when did I have this before it just can create some mental turmoil.
I would say most often though, it seems like it’s a thought that ends up creating an emotional state, but I don’t know if that’s what do you think about that?
Mark: Yeah, I mean, I think we’re saying the same thing. I think of mental is kind of top down and emotional is bottom up. Right? So, and I think mental to go back to, we can start because it’s not just the individual from my view.
It’s also societal and cultural. And there’s all this kind of like, you know, from. Psychoanalysis, like it’s all super ego, right? Um, it’s all those like things that we bring into the room, all the learning that we’ve had, all of our past experiences, like all the brain stuff, right? We’re emotional. Like you said, I can sometimes come out of nowhere.
And for me, that’s more like it, it’s more kind of like amorphous, hard to contact. You don’t know what’s going to hit you till it hits you. And then, yeah, it can have mental, you know, side effects. Right. But it starts, uh, from the body, I think. Um, starting with mental, you talked about performance and that brought up what I [00:22:00] hear, um, with a lot of my guys.
And I want to say this on the, on the air, cause I think it’s helpful to normalize it that a lot of men see sex as performance, right? And I think a lot of men see sex as a performance that they’re failing. You know that they’re not making their partner come, or they’re not having sex as much as they want, or they’re not in the physical shape, or they’re not that porn star, right?
Like, it’s something where I think carries a lot of shame, um, for I think most Westerners, at least. I don’t know too much about other cultures. I assume some do it better than us. Um, but I’m curious about, about that, about that kind of like, mental thing of like, okay, it’s time to take my test, right? Like, Can I pleasure her enough?
Can I last long enough? Am I going to get hard? Like, it’s all this stuff that comes in. Uh, you know, once the lights go down and the clothes come off.
Jim Benson: Yeah, that’s sick. You’re really painting a frightening and accurate picture of what it’s like. Um, and I say frightening because, you know, I experienced those same things as well.
It’s like, there’s a certain [00:23:00] terror that’s happening when, uh, yeah. It’s almost like your, your childhood or your teenage trauma gets resurfaced, you know, like what comes up. So that’s kind of leaning into the emotional part. But I think when I, when I talked to so many of the guys I talked to are operating from a place of.
Their head is the one that’s in charge, the, the, the, not their cock head, the other head, it really should be the other way around in some ways. Well, actually we can talk about that. But, um, so they’re, they’re working on like strategizing. What can I do to last longer? Okay. I’m going to, you know, first we get really good at going down on her and then I’m going to use the two condoms.
I’m going to use that spray that I found in the back of that catalog. Cause then I’m going to. You know, um, that’s what I’m going to think about my tax returns. And that’s going to keep me. And it’s like, it’s all this mental activity to try to manage the body. And in other words, the, the head is the rider [00:24:00] and the body is the horse or the donkey or whatever that is, right.
And I’m going to, I’m going to manage and, and maintain this donkey by using a stick or a carrot or something, because we’re not together, we’re not a unified, Creature. So, uh, I have to do this in order to succeed and to, you know, make sure that she’ll stay with me or that they’ll stay with me and that, um, I’ll secure the love that I always wanted.
Like it probably keeps going on like that at some level inside of us. So what’s the solution? Well, how do you move from this very strong head orientation to more of a body orientation? And one of the first ways to do that is with. Sensual and somatic experiencing. So I’m going to come into my body more and that’s going to have me become more of a sensual creature instead of a brain creature or a mental creature.
[00:25:00] And how do I do that? Well, I’m going to come into being, I’m going to, I’m going to focus on touch. For instance, I’m going to focus on, let’s, let’s say less on the visual aspect or the mental aspect. I’m more on the somatic aspect, which would mean I’m going to focus on my fingertips or my forearms as they’re touching their body, the, my partner’s body.
Um, I’m going to see what that sensation feels like to me, not because I’m trying to give them pleasure, because then that just ends up being another strategy. I’m going to feel the contact of the hair on the backs of my hands as it goes over their belly or whatever that is, and I’m going to do it slow enough that I’m aware of that contact.
And for some guys, they’ll be like, well, that’s boring. Just give me to the, uh, Ejaculation bar. And well, how about getting more comfortable with what you’re calling boring? It’s actually an attunement process. It’s becoming more present with your partner. [00:26:00] These things are valuable. And it’s like you spoke, Mark, the, um, the improvisational nature of sex.
That was your best sex. As it has been for me as well, when I can drop my whole strategic thinking of what needs to happen next. And what am I worried about? And what if she doesn’t come? And I’m not gonna, I’m gonna be with this person and that’s when your partner feels like, Oh, there’s somebody here with me.
It’s not a brain that’s trying to figure me out because that feels a little weird. It’s more like, here’s a person that’s actually with me and we’re going to discover together what we have.
Mark: I think it’s really well said. I think it’s what you and your programs do differently because a lot of the sex education is all technique and it’s all just like, you know, how do you read your woman or, you know, being heteronormative, but how do you read your partner and how do you like execute the program, right?
How do you land the plane? Not how do you actually connect?
Jim Benson: Yeah. And, and that’s good to have, because if you [00:27:00] just think if you had none of that and you’d be like, Oh, no. And she’s like, this is my clitoris. You need to lick my clitoris. And you’re like, Oh, okay. I don’t even know. How do I do that? So having some experience or, I mean, you can even watch porn for educational purposes.
Well, okay. Very little porn is good for educational purposes, but it’s out there. I mean, if you really want to see, and it’s not about the jackhammering or the like. You know, attacking the clip with, you know, 10, 000 repetitions per minute with your tongue. It’s like, okay, there’s a way to Know the material and then integrate that material, but then you kind of forget the material and you’re just being with your partner.
So there’s a forgetting that’s very powerful. Letting go of the technique. Super powerful.
Mark: Yeah, that’s just being like you said, um, and we talked about this earlier. This could be a whole nother topic, but about kind of the fear of being a predator. Right. Or the fear of having sexual aggression, um, you know, [00:28:00] essentially assaulting somebody.
Um, it is of course a really, you know, tense issue. Um, but I’m curious your, your thoughts on that, of how guys can work with that. Cause I think there’s a huge mental thing that comes into the room, especially in the modern era.
Jim Benson: So, um, safety and consent, number one, like, let’s just start there. Right. Okay. So, and so consent is absolutely number one.
Safety is what comes when you have consent and you can say, all right, within this container, um, I feel safe enough with this person. It’s not just, I just didn’t meet them. That happens very rarely, but now I feel safe. I feel like, oh, we’re, we’re. We’re available to support each other. We can be together in this process.
And then once safety is created, then to some degree, you can start taking risks. So you can allow that more aggressive fuck monster to come out. And it might turn out in your partner. In many cases, your partner is like, Oh, Oh, thank you. Thank you for ravishing me. Thank you for pinning me down. [00:29:00] Thank you for doing things with intensity, which to me feels like passion, which me, me, I’m not the recipient.
Me, the recipient feels passion. I feel desired. I feel Turned on by that. Yay. So let’s have some of that kind of intense, aggressive energy, but only after it’s been established that we are in a safe space here. You know, you might even have safe words that you would use like, okay, if I say red, we really stop.
If I say, no, no, don’t do that. I don’t stop, please keep going. That’s what it’s, that’s half the fun is, is going past the boundary, even though, you know, if you’ve set it up to say, okay, uh, this is our safe word. But until that safe word is said, I can do anything, you know, within this realm of possibilities.
Mark: Yeah, I think the communication is key, like you’re saying, right. And having those, those ground rules, especially as people explore different kinks or different toys or whatever, and they start kind of pushing those [00:30:00] edges. Um, and yeah, I guess what I want to say to, to people out there and, you know, you’re using heteronormative language again, but I think that the masculine role, whether that person, whatever their gender they’re born with, or they choose the masculine role is initiative, right?
Like it’s initiating, it’s leading, it is the one that’s penetrating, right? There’s like this kind of primal sexual energy that can be embodied. Yeah. Um, that is that boundary pusher, right? More of the, the giver and the provider, um, or as I say, the feminist more that, you know, um, receiving, um, taking role.
Jim Benson: Yeah, totally. And each person has a masculine and a feminine, right? And for some of us, it’s very strongly masculine, you know, that’s the person who is, um, way over on that end of the scale. Um, and for them, yay, let that really have its space and also learn to develop the feminine side. So, in the same way that someone who’s way on the feminine side, say naturally in the feminine bodied or feminine oriented person, that’s very receptive, well, they’re going [00:31:00] to need to cultivate the ability to set boundaries and, and have a good strong masculine as well.
And then there are people more in the middle who we could say are switches or more androgynous or whatever that is. And then. Um, though those people will often find someone who’s similarly androgynous in that, in that realm. Right. So that they can be met in that middle place. But within that, it’s great to be still be able to activate masculine and feminine.
You’re still going to find those roles being really important to create sexual polarity in the bedroom.
Mark: Exactly. Which is that’s crazy arousal, right. And the attraction. Um, so you feel right. It turns into emotional or there are more mental things you want to
Jim Benson: dive in. Yeah.
Mark: Yes, the same more about about emotional.
Um,
Jim Benson: well, we’ve kind of we’ve been touching on it since we’ve been talking so far today. Um, just to talk about the diff the blocks in the different areas of the body. It’s important. Um, and for you to know your. [00:32:00] Strong and weak emotional areas. So you may be able to say, you know, I’m really strong in my, my heart.
I’m feel unguarded unprotected, or, you know, judiciously protected, but I don’t feel like I have tons of blocks in my heart. However, In my my my pelvis, I feel like I am locked up and I do have restrictions there or the other way around. I am like free to have sex. I’d like to have plenty of sex, but I’m doing it from a very blocked and protected place in my heart.
Or maybe it’s my throat. I’m actually finding it difficult to speak my needs or I have mom in my belly or whatever the thing is. Being able to know your strong and your weak areas are, is very important, but you know, in the strengths coaching work or the talking about strengths, let’s focus on our strengths.
I think that’s great. And in the emotional realm, I think it’s really good to focus on your weak areas. Um, honestly, because [00:33:00] if they’re, if they just continue to be neglected. Then you’re going to be limited severely sometimes in how much you can express and enjoy express yourself and enjoy your sexual experience.
Mark: Yeah, you know, when I talk with some of my guys, they and the parts of it, the same thing is that in sex, they have more emotional capacity, right? They’re like stilted a lot in their relationship outside of the bedroom, but sometimes when they’re in the bedroom, that’s where it comes alive. Right. Um, so I’m curious if you have any ideas about that or any tips about how to bring what might be actually a healthy sex life, or at least a passionate sex life out of the bedroom and into their relationship as a whole,
Jim Benson: you mean, from an emotional perspective, say a little more.
Mark: Yeah. So, so, like, I think guys or something that I’ve talked to her, like, more open, more connected when they’re having sex and they feel. In the bedroom, and they feel love when they’re having sex, right? But they don’t, it’s hard for them to access that when they’re just like in a relationship or, you know, they’re being a dad or whatever, [00:34:00] right?
Um, in the kind of like default world for like a better
Jim Benson: term. Yeah, totally. I mean, I know for myself, I’ve been, um, the particular deep psychological work that I’m doing right now that I have been for the past year, uh, I’m uncovering some very deep, deep Intense core beliefs, which are difficult to look at.
And at the same time, it’s very empowering to see the origins of some of this material. So for instance, I’ve conflated sex and love in, in my psyche. And I think it’s very true with so many men because very
Mark: common. Yeah.
Jim Benson: Think of how that. Starts. I mean, you could probably talk more about that. Um, but what, what is that, um, way that they’ve merged together?
And what is it like to start to separate those two? And if you start doing that, you could look at it and say, wow, is that really love? Because it doesn’t have the sexual component that I’m so used to having it. A company. So, um, that particular way of [00:35:00] threading it out is, is really important. And honestly, I think women in general, I’m going to make a generalization here are way better at this than men.
And they’re just seem to have that ability to. Um, experience intimacy without having it be sexual. And for us to be able to cult, us men, to be able to cultivate that, I think it’s a very valuable experience and probably one of the most challenging ones because of that strong, uh, merging of those two when we were young.
Mark: Yeah, I think that’s true for a lot of guys, right? Where it’s difficult for us to feel either end, right? Love without sex or sex without love. Um, so as we move into our commercial break, I’m curious any, I don’t know, strategies or ways to work with negative emotions that arise in the bedroom, shame, fear, grief, sadness, you know, the stuff that kind of comes out of nowhere.
Jim Benson: It’s, um, it can be a shock when it comes up. Like, you know, it can take you by surprise. Um, the, the [00:36:00] keys for me, I would say would be mindfulness. So first of all, noticing it and, and being able to tolerate it because it’s, it can be intense. And then, uh, if you really can speak it, like find a way to communicate it in the most non defensive way and certainly not blaming way that you can with a partner.
So you’d be like, Whoa. Uh, yeah. I’m, uh, I’m just feeling something for me. I just have to say I’m feeling something. I don’t know what it is Give me a minute So basically I stall for time until I can track the thing inside of me and be like, oh, okay Oh, oh, oh, oh, that’s, that’s shame that I’m feeling. So you, you know, that, that would be, that’s what I do personally.
So
Mark: yeah, pause, name it. Um, don’t like try to suppress it. Right. Don’t try to dig into the hole, but connect with it. Um, yeah, there’s a lot to talk about here, but we got to move to our next break. When we come back, we’re going to talk about the spiritual side and how to tie them all together. So thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you on the other side.[00:37:00]
Ad: Voice America is on LinkedIn. Connect with us today.
Intro: Men’s Therapy Online is now accepting new members. Men’s Therapy Online offers a solution to the lack of outlets for emotional expression. Positive role models and access to meaningful milestone experiences in our post COVID world. Loneliness is at an all time high.
Men need consistent community. Our society is rapidly changing. Old models of masculinity are falling at the task of promoting emotional intelligence and meaningful connection. Men’s Therapy Online offers tools and experiences designed to help the men who are struggling to balance traditional male roles and emotional fluidity.
Whether you need to get back on your feet. Or take your life to the next level. Men’s Therapy Online has your back. We help our members become a true 21st century man. A [00:38:00] man who is not burdened by the rapid change of society, but who contributes to it honorably. If you’re interested in signing up and finding your band of brothers, go to menstherapy.
online to learn more. That’s menstherapy. online. Start your journey today.
Ad: It’s your world, motivate, change, succeed voice, America, empowerment. com.
Intro: You were listening to the men’s therapy podcast with Mark Azulay to reach the show today. Please call 1 888 346 9141 that’s 1 888 346 9141 or send an email to podcast that men’s therapy dot online or visit www. menstherapypodcast. com. Com. Now back to the Men’s Therapy Podcast. [00:39:00]
Mark: Welcome back to the show.
I’m here with Jim Benson, and we’re talking about sexuality. Uh, so this is a topic that is always hard to put into words, but it’s spirituality, right? And the spiritual aspect of sex and connection. And for me, it goes back to ancient practices of tantra. Uh, I think new of like, you know, kind of like, um, urban tanha or modern tanha, or even kink, right?
Like this stuff is resurfacing now. Um, as the spiritual practices are getting reignited, and I think, uh, Western audiences are getting more interested in them, but to start off, let’s start off. We did the last segment. What’s your idea about spirituality? How would you define that? And where does it exist in the sexual space?
Jim Benson: Um, you know, I, um, when I was, I think, in my 30s, maybe 31 or so, uh, the sexual partner I had at the moment gave me, uh, Margo Anon’s The Art of Sexual Ecstasy. And I remember reading that book and being what, because it just talked about realms that I had no idea [00:40:00] of. And so I, you know, read the book multiple times, and then I would practice some of the stuff with partners.
And then at some point I got so into it, I hired Tantricas or people who were trained in this to come work with me one on one. So we, you know, we’d be lying side by side and doing fire breath orgasms or, and, uh, I still, I still didn’t totally get it. I thought this is like, it just seems so far out there for me in many ways.
And then I took, um, actual tantric workshops with Skydancing Tantra with Margot and, uh, went, Oh, okay. I’m starting to get a sense of this now. If you have a, you have the right partner in the right environment, it’s almost everything has to align and in a certain way. And then something can start to happen.
That’s magic. You could say, I’m feeling a sense of unity or non separation, or I’m feeling, um, Like there’s something that’s blessing us that’s [00:41:00] bigger than just the two of us, or like there’s, there’s moments where that would start to happen and, and I started to realize, oh, I’m, I’m getting it. I think I’m getting all this stuff.
It just took years. Right. And eventually, um, After a teacher training with Margo, then we started to teach together. So she’s my root Tantra teacher, um, which is so amazing to think about that. I found that book and then here I am teaching in Europe with Margo.
Ad: Well, that’s very cool.
Jim Benson: Um, And, you know, Margot just celebrated her 80th birthday and I was in the south of France with her with 50 other people.
We’re all celebrating her and Margot and I are doing the wave of bliss together with the whole room wave of bliss. She’s sitting on my lap and we’re breathing, you know, energy up with each other. And it’s like we’re in a temple of, um, I want to call it a sex temple makes it sound, um, so not what it was, but it’s, [00:42:00] it’s just this, you know, Uh, an environment where, um, intimacy and sexual energy can be expressed, um, in the, in the fullest range
Ad: possible.
Jim Benson: So you know, with that experience, I would say there’s, there’s, there’s moments where that’s touching on what we could call spirituality. Everybody’s going to have a different definition, definition of what that means. Um, but for, for me, I’ve, I’ve actually experienced. Different kinds of what we could call spiritual experience, where I’m left after sex with my heart kind of cracked open, my body kind of shaking or trembling from the experience, a sense of very deep connection and oneness with my partner, like we are, we’re, we’re not separate beings in a [00:43:00] way.
We’re masculine and feminine flavors of reality that have chosen, I don’t know if this sounds too woohoo, but like we’re the, there’s a masculine feminine sides of, um, the, the universe of the world that have chosen to embody and love each other in this moment. So, to me, I would say that’s, that’s a spiritual, a very deep spiritual experience.
Um, I’m, I’m feeling like the, to try, I mean, if you’re going after spiritual experiences, it’s kind of like going after any, you know, going after the wind, it’s, it’s almost like you have to plant the, The seeds and the, the, uh, the, do the good work and then see what grows from there. Um, because I think the, so many of my endeavors personally, and, and, and many people I’ve talked with this kind of like, I’m going to attack awakening or enlightenment or spirituality with the same [00:44:00] way I built my business, or I, you know, lost 50 pounds or whatever it is.
It’s just a different creature and needs to be, um, needs to be addressed that way.
Mark: Yeah, that’s really well said. I mean, first off, that’s awesome that you work with Margot in that way. I’ve also read that book. I haven’t gone nearly as deep as you have. Um, but that’s, that’s cool that you got to really like be there with her.
Um, and for the listeners out there, I’d highly recommend it. And what blew me away about that book is that it’s a workbook and it works kind of like sequentially and you’re not having sex until like the last 40 pages, right? Like it’s, it’s a book on sexuality, but most of it is kind of stuff that Jim you’re talking about.
It’s like, Breathing, eye gazing, set and setting, like just laying next to your partner, right? Like staring at their genitals, which is like something that was really weird for me to do. Like, it’s just like, like, it’s just like, slow down, slow down, slow down, slow down. Like don’t have sex yet. And then, you know, the, the last whatever back third or whatever, you get all the [00:45:00] positions and you get like what I kind of thought like the Karma Sutra was or whatever when I was a teenager.
Um, but a lot of it is just all this kind of. Presence, which I think is really cool. And, and spirituality kind of my working definition right now. Um, I think it’s similar, which is like, if you can strip away all the stuff we talked about in this episode, right, the physical barriers, the mental barriers, the emotional barriers, and you get to just presence, right?
What you get to, it’s not just normal life. Like there’s more there, right? So like you kind of get to zero and then you just keep going, you know, like there’s more to reality that I think all of our mental blocks are pushing away all the time. You know, there’s a lot more going on, but we get in our own way of perceiving what is what is there.
Um, so just kind of as like, uh, encouragement for the people listening of, like, doing this work doesn’t just get rid of your pain also opens up new doors, um, to different different kind of realms or different experiences or whatever may be there.
Jim Benson: Yeah, it’s
Mark: kind of there all the time, you know,
Jim Benson: thank you.
Yeah, that’s so good that you just presence [00:46:00] that in this conversation. So it’s not just like heal your blocks and, and, you know, work on your, your performance anxiety. It’s like, oh, no, there’s a whole, there’s a reason you do that. And that’s to come into this place of more, um, presence inside of yourself.
And, and as you said that, I realized another principle, like, we could talk about some of the principles of, of, um, really great sex. Um, but. One of them that you reminded me of is a listening to your intuition. So, uh, if there’s no other practice that you’re doing, then attuning to your intuitive sense, your gut sense of what to do next, and that you’re listened to it and you act on it.
Like that’s. Huge. And if you can do all that in the bedroom, again, that’s the reason why we try to reduce anxiety or to create less stress in your body. All that is designed so that you can now listen more clearly to what the next thing to do is. And when you’re doing that, you’re in the flow of life, like you said, the flow state.
And now all of a sudden, sex [00:47:00] becomes this beautiful dance instead of some kind of hurdle you’ve got to jump over, which is, you know, more of a struggle than actually feeling like a joyful experience.
Mark: Absolutely. Yeah. So you have follow your intuition. What other principles do you have as you kind of start to tile these together and wrap up these different dimensions?
Jim Benson: Well, we talked about, uh, safety and consent, right? That’s kind of the ground level. Right. Um, and then there’s a sense of, you could say connection, whatever that connecting experience is. And for some people, it’s just as simple as breathing together. Eye gazing, some of the tantric principles that are in Margot’s book, we’re going to, I want to, I need to feel connected to you before we go further or deeper.
And when you skip over that deeper connection part, then it becomes more. Like you can get into the physical more. I’ve experienced this, you know, more recently, like, Oh, I want to go back to that. Like that really exciting, you know, the thrilling edgy, you know, sex stuff. And [00:48:00] I, Oh, wait, I just jumped over the whole connecting more deeply part, like really feel connected in the heart or to go to a place where there’s really, um, you’re deeply feeling the love for this person at whatever level you’re able to feel for them.
Yeah. So now you’re in that sense of connection, you’re in that, and then now when you’re in a connection, now you can take the risks, like we talked about a little bit. Now I can push the edge a little bit. Let’s see what happens if I, and that’s when you’re listening to your intuition, because if you’re really listening to your intuition, it’s going to tell you things that your mind will say, I can’t do that.
I can’t suddenly, you know, start choking my partner or, or slap their ass or whatever the thing is that, you know, and. Your intuition’s like, mm hmm, yeah, you can, you can do that right now. And you, this is where you have to be willing to experiment and fail. And, you know, what do they say, what’s the cycle to repair?
There’s the rupture and [00:49:00] repair, you know, you got the rupture thing and now you’re like, oh, let’s clean that up. So that’s why that, but listening to your intuition is not going to be safe all the time. And if you think that’s true, you’ve got another thing coming. So there’s that. And then there’s, um, I would say the other principles are mindfulness.
So tracking what’s happening for you, really listening and attuning. And then, um, and as you mentioned, presence, presence is just huge. And how do you get present? Well, it’s mindfulness. It’s coming into the sensuality and it’s just being, being good inside of yourself, tracking your own experience and then sharing that with a partner.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah. I just want to make a plug for, you know, working with you or working with a therapist. We’re doing some of that deep work because for a lot of guys, I think this stuff’s really hard. Like we are very. Externally focused, right? We’re all about output. We’re all about performance. We’re all about, you know, kind of the competition of [00:50:00] life and connection, even just eye gazing.
I remember when I was first starting this stuff, I felt terror, like literally capital T terror of, I felt exposed. I felt like I wasn’t ready for that level of connection, right? I was like, Oh, I’m used to hiding or I’m used to like putting up a mask or I’m used to like, I don’t know, just kind of blundering through stuff, right?
And like, just to be like, seen in that level, even though there is a beauty part to it, and that part will come in the beginning, it can be really scary. You know, so just to normalize that, right, but like, it doesn’t get better, you
Jim Benson: know, you get more comfortable with the discomfort. That’s true.
Mark: Yeah. Right.
So if you’re trying to do this stuff and you’re like, oh, my God, this is really hard. It’s like, yeah, because we haven’t, we’re not trained kind of to, to do that. So a good place to start is working with someone like Jim. So Jim, as, as we’re wrapping up, um, how can people find you online and learn more about what you do and what you offer?
Jim Benson: My website is awakened masculine.com, so awakened [00:51:00] masculine and, um, I’ve been coaching guys for about 15 years now, uh, and running men’s groups for 30 years. So, um, it’s been a, it’s been a process to start to do more work around sexuality. And especially since I’ve been doing all the Tantra work, um, these last 15 years or 20 years.
Um, it’s been a real gift to work with guys and occasionally their partners. So I’ll work with guys for a few sessions and then. Uh, they’ll say, you know, is it possible that my wife come and sit in on this, uh, say, sure, maybe I should talk to her first. So sometimes it’s helpful to, you know, if a guy has a partner for me to work with the couple, um, because it reveals a lot.
And I’m, I’m pretty good at translating between the sexes. So, uh, I can help a guy understand what this, what his female partner is needing. So, um, I do right [00:52:00] now I’m doing sessions, uh, one on one sessions with men. And I also have my program, multi orgasmic lover that’s available on the website. So you can find me at a waste, awakenmaslin.
com.
Mark: It’s great. Yeah, I’d highly recommend it. Check it out. I think it’s an important part of men’s mental health and men’s physical health and spiritual health and mental health. I mean, everything we’re talking about emotional health. Um, it’s a huge part. I think it’s such a pillar for a lot of guys. Um, and it’s something to kind of leave with.
Right. I’ve learned that. If you think you’re good at sex, you’re probably not, and you can learn, there’s always more to learn, right? Like, I think a lot of guys can be overconfident and not know, like, how far it can go, like, in these spiritual aspects, or in this connective aspect, or in this emotional aspect.
So, even if you think you got it figured out, right, take a look at Jim’s stuff, because there are other dimensions there that you just might not be aware of. So Jim, thanks so much for being on the show listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in and we’ll see you next week. Another episode of men’s therapy podcast.[00:53:00]
Intro: Thank you for joining your host, Mark on the men’s therapy podcast. Be sure to tune in again, live next Friday at 2 PM Eastern time and 11 AM Pacific time on the voice of America empowerment channel and anywhere podcasts are found to support the show, leave a review on your favorite podcast platform for more information or to apply to be a guest, visit www.menstherapypodcast. com
Unpack what a modern midlife crisis actually looks like. Learn why the old stereotypes get it wrong. Discover how it can become an initiation instead of a collapse.
Listen Now
Confused about CBT, psychodynamic, somatic, or group therapy? Learn how different types of therapy work, how to find the right approach, and when men may need deeper work or accountability.
Listen NowGet expert insights, podcast drops, blog highlights, and upcoming events straight to your inbox,
built for men who want to grow, lead, and live with purpose.
Address: PO Box 142, Evergreen, CO 80439
Phone: (301) 442-9119
MTO connects men with licensed practitioners who provide guidance and support for navigating the challenges of modern life. These coaching services are not a substitute for mental health treatment, emergency services, or crisis support.
