In this episode our guest, Amy Novotny, will teach us about the autonomic nervous system and how to reduce fight or flight in our bodies. Mental health and physical health are deeply intertwined – getting a handle on our bodies will increase calm, stability, and motivation. Join us as we present some bottom-up techniques that can help you beat anxiety and return to center.
0:00
[Music] Mark azoulay is an industry leader in
0:07
Psychotherapy and men’s mental health he’s helped countless guys get back on their feet deepen their relationships
0:14
and Excel in their lives now he’s taken all that he has learned and is sharing it with you in each episode Mark will
0:22
interview an expert in the field of masculinity and men’s work we’ll cover topics such as emotional intelligence
0:28
masculine identity anger management Financial Health trauma recovery marriage and divorce ethics and
0:36
spirituality tune in and become a better man welcome back to the men’s therapy podcast I’m here with Amy novotney and
0:42
we’re talking about the link between mental health and physical health Amy welcome to the show thanks for having me
0:48
Mark it’s a pleasure to be here so in the first seg we always start with kind of the personal story um how did you get
0:54
into doing nervous system work so I started in physical therapy I
0:59
got my doctorate in that and I did that for a few years at the time I was considered a good physical
1:06
therapist did Orthopedics help people with some chronic pain and I always
1:12
thought there was something else it seemed like there was a segment of the population that didn’t get to better
1:19
quickly and that made me really curious and at the same time I was running marathons training to qualify for the
1:25
Boston Marathon and I started running on the treadmill 8 mes three times a week in 55 minutes during that time I had my
1:34
the typical Runners little aches and nagging pains here or there and I started to shift the way I held my rib
1:42
cage and the way I breathe so different from breath work but more I focused on my breathing mechanics and when I did
1:49
that I could start to get rid of any pain I was having I’d get off the treadmill and I didn’t have to stretch
1:54
foam roll scrape all the things that I was teaching people to do as a physical therapist I stopped doing just cold
2:00
turkey stop doing it yeah and it took me a little bit of time but I realized that
2:06
I was making a true change to my nervous system and I was learning how to control
2:11
it and that set me off on a whole new path so I left the physical therapy
2:17
world and switched over into nervous system work because it had such a profound impact on me and my ability to
2:23
run marathons or longer distances painfree and I was starting to help people in a different way as well well
2:30
where if I worked on their nervous system or helped them with it they could get themselves out of pain yeah so I I
2:38
love the idea of like you know the scientist that experiments on herself type of thing um how did you how did you
2:44
go about figuring that out like how did you move your rib cage around and have the idea to start to Tinker well it
2:51
started with I took some classes through a Institute called the poster restoration Institute and they got me to
2:58
just start thinking differently so you know when you go to school you kind of learn some things you you just take it
3:04
and apply it well they were different because they said well your body is a symmetrical so you can’t just apply
3:10
everything the same on each side and you have to start looking at breathing and
3:15
anything that’s inside you you need to start looking at so that at least got me to start thinking differently and so as
3:22
I was thinking about some of the things that they taught and I was running on the treadmill you have time while you’re
3:29
on the treadmill running you just you can either listen to music or you think so I was thinking and so I just started
3:34
playing with it I just I literally start started doing things that were opposite what we were taught instead of sucking
3:41
my gut in to give myself this great posture I let it out and when I let it
3:47
out my rib cage dropped down when my rib cage dropped down I felt relaxed all of a sudden my hips freed up I didn’t have
3:53
any of the aches and pains I didn’t have the tightness all a sudden I didn’t have to stretch I didn’t have to do the
3:58
hamstring stretch stretching or foam rolling and it was because I let my belly bun go I stopped sucking it in and
4:05
so I started having to study more about breathing mechanics more about the nervous system and so I could put things
4:12
together once I realized hey when my rib cage is down it supports the diaphragm
4:19
differently so my diaphragm Works different and that stimulates the Vagas nerve which then calms me down and so I
4:27
just started putting things together and of course I could experiment the opposite way and ramp myself up too so
4:34
that was that’s the great benefit is not only did I could or could I experiment
4:39
on myself and go both directions but then I could teach other people to do it and say hey if you’re running out of a
4:46
burning building suck your gut in and run as fast as you can or you’re at the end of a race Sprint and suck it in and
4:53
see what happens or if you’re wanting to calm down I want you to do this and
4:59
that’s literally how I got started in this work that’s cool so you really found like a lever or like a dial that
5:05
you can ramp yourself up or calm yourself down absolutely yep absolutely
5:10
100% And I’ve used it in many situations to where I’ve tested it too
5:17
I’ve done really crazy endurance Feats where I’ve tested it and seen okay does
5:23
this stuff really work when I pushed my body to the Limit and it did I did some crazy backtack for marathons and
5:31
marathons just weekend after weekend of doing things just to trash my body and
5:36
see if I ramp myself up on a race could I calm it down in the middle of the race
5:41
and then could I calm it down in between races and do another one the next weekend and yes I could and not have
5:48
injured that’s cool I mean I like to do that you’re just like experimenting out there in the field um so I’m hearing you
5:55
know the the obvious application for athletes I think specifically endurance athletes what about for like the regular
6:02
person right like how can this help to benefit them yeah absolutely so half of
6:08
the people I work with are not endurance athletes well probably maybe 75% are not
6:13
endurance athletes so this applies to anyone with other types of pain like chronic pain um people with arthritic
6:21
arthritic conditions that they attribute the pain to the arthritis but it’s not necessarily so so people that are going
6:28
in for different joint replac ments we can get the nervous system to calm down and when it does it releases the
6:34
abnormal muscle hold on the joint and the joint starts to move and have a fluid type of flow and so they don’t
6:41
have the impingement and their pain goes away and there’s other just you decide
6:47
all of a sudden one weekend you want to go play flag football and you start running and maybe you pull your groin you can use it for that as well um so
6:54
weaken Warriors it can be any other types of pains as well and then the
6:59
other application which I didn’t start off with initially but has become very much part of my practice is the mental
7:06
and emotional aspect trauma anxiety stress Panic PTSD that definitely has a
7:13
um a very strong connection to the nervous system and we can work on calming the nervous system down to
7:19
address those issues as well yeah can you tell us more about that I mean maybe starting by giving the listeners like a
7:25
primer on the connection between you know body tension and pain and anguish
7:30
yeah so what I tell people is we all have different types of pain we can have
7:36
physical pain mental pain emotional pain and there is typically some kind of
7:41
Trigg trigger that comes with it and then again that trigger can be physical mental emotional spiritual intellectual
7:46
there can be many different types of triggers and they can lead to whatever your pain is when we have a trigger if you think
7:54
about you’re driving down the road all of a sudden maybe the traffic got bad and you can feel yourself tense up so
8:01
what happened is the figh ORF flight nervous system kicked in and put you on guard because there’s a whole bunch of
8:07
traffic in front of you and maybe you’re late your body responded by causing muscles to tense up there are common
8:15
muscles that will tense up in that scenario but beyond that we each have a
8:20
unique set of muscles that will contract even more on top of those common
8:25
ones over time the muscles that contract they start to pull your bones and joints
8:30
out of position if they do it enough and you have a strong enough
8:36
trigger the next day you wake up and you’re in pain and you may not have had an injury
8:42
or anything but you have pain left shoulder low back right hip whatever it
8:48
is could be left low back you have this pain that shows up and you’re not really sure why and what had happened was
8:56
mentally or physically or emotionally you had a strong enough reaction that put you in fight or flight mode that
9:02
told your body to contract muscles to protect you in some way those muscles pulled your bones and
9:09
joints just enough that tissues now butt up against each other or in the case of anxiety or
9:17
stress your body starts to shift positions your breast bone starts to get more and more prominent and starts to
9:22
shove higher and higher forward and out and all of a sudden your breathing
9:28
mechanics change just enough that you feel like you can’t breathe that you feel like you can’t calm down that
9:35
there’s this Edge all over your body and all of your muscles are just on edge so whether it’s pain or stress or anxiety
9:43
there is this physical change that happens in our body and then because this all happens so subtly we don’t
9:51
recognize how to get out of it so sometimes when people have pain they say
9:56
okay I’m just going to rest for two weeks and that might be enough that they calm down enough sometimes with anxiety
10:02
they can go on vacation if it hasn’t been a long-term form of anxiety
10:08
something where it just kind of crops up they might be able to get out of it but often they can’t they’ve crossed over a
10:14
threshold where there’s been enough physical change in the body that now how their body is being held is contributing
10:21
to their anxiety and stress Panic or pain and that’s not to say that that’s
10:27
the only cause for these issues but saying they’re contributing to the stress and pain oh for sure yeah I mean
10:35
so when I started my journey on like mindfulness and meditation right one of the first things I noticed was how much
10:40
pain I hold my body literally all the time yeah right like how tight my neck felt how store my lower back felt how I
10:47
felt like I was you know had one shoulder cocked up higher than another like everything just felt out of whack and I was like oh my God like this is
10:54
all the time isn’t it right like I just for some re you know I can be numb to it because it becomes the normal but I
11:01
imagine I’m not alone in the fact that I think many people carry pain around all the time to some extent what do you
11:07
think about that absolutely and the problem is people often give the reason
11:14
of pain away they think that it’s because of an injury 20 years ago or
11:20
they think a chiropractor has to push on them in order to get them out of pain and that might be part of of what’s out
11:28
there as a reason but if we can start to take some ownership back and think okay my
11:35
pain is because my body has learned to keep me in a position that is not normal for my body
11:44
and that position is causing the pain so if I can now change the position I can
11:51
change the pain if I can change the nervous system I can change the way the muscles are
11:57
behaving on a body that’s out of position so if I start to put both of
12:02
those together I now have some power back and I can do something about it and so you
12:08
can start to influence and change pain whether it’s mental emotional or physical you can have control over it
12:16
again it’s not easy my words sound very simple and they are simple when you hear
12:22
them but it’s not easy to do it’s not easy to implement because so often when
12:27
we’ve had an experience where we’re triggered we often shut off the brain’s
12:33
ability to sense a part of our body and when that happens that makes it
12:38
harder for you to change how you hold your body yeah so I’m interested in your
12:44
explanation because I love the way you’re talking about it because people have talked on this podcast about similar things but there’s always this
12:50
kind of like vagueness to it and I just love how like precise you are um so so
12:55
I’m curious like what do you think about the idea that I’m motions are held in the body so for instance like I started
13:01
doing CrossFit and I notice when I get to the edge of my range of motion I get
13:06
it’s like sadness right I or fear or Terror or things that like don’t really fit with the workout but there is this
13:14
like emotional holding um and I’m working with a PT you know from the gym you know etc etc but like this idea of
13:20
like as we open the range of motion there can often be big emotional reactions have you seen that in your
13:25
practice and 100% that yeah absolutely there there are certain common areas
13:32
where I see that people hold stuff Y and when they start to get that area to free
13:38
up or open up it becomes very emotional so I’ll give an
13:43
example the armpit area armpits the breast bone the top of the breast bone
13:50
below the breast bone the front of the hips the low back those are all areas where people are holding emotions that
13:59
have come from the past and they become very additive and so when I’m working
14:04
with someone and I’m getting them to release that breast bone to melt in one to help with anxiety or stress or
14:13
pain and two to help their body get back into a neutral free flowing position but
14:19
three to get the rid of some of the Motions that are stored in that area it becomes very problematic for
14:27
people when they can’t release that and they feel stuck but at the same time
14:33
they often feel vulnerable when the breast bone does release in and sometimes they might flail sometimes
14:39
they might cry they might shot out there can be an actual varied response by
14:45
having that release and the other part of it is the nervous system is going to
14:50
try to kick back in and guard back again and so a person needs to learn how to
14:56
stabilize in that new position once they’ve felt that release right having not kind of like
15:02
rubber band back to that old defended position right absolutely yeah yeah so I
15:08
don’t know if there science say an this but like how do emotions get stored I don’t know like what’s the like what’s in there you know like what is what’s
15:16
the juice of that or how is that locked away do we do we know or is it just just like weird phenomena well it’s part of
15:23
the sympathetic nervous system response yeah so part when that nervous syst
15:28
system gets triggered our response is to tighten up muscles so your brain Associates a
15:36
muscle tightening with an emotion that is Meaningful to you so if you
15:42
experience something and there is some meaning to it and your body’s physical
15:48
response is to contract let’s say your armpit you you contract the peack and
15:53
your arm comes in because you it that emotion that triggered cause that you’re
16:00
basically associating the two together so it’s an association that this armpit being
16:08
closed in your right side your arm being at your side that’s protecting you from
16:13
that emotion that you experienced at that time so it’s an association pattern that you’re creating and so if you don’t
16:21
want to deal with that emotion you’re not going to likely let that armpit relax you’re going to keep that arm
16:27
guarded by yourself so there’s these neurons and connections that actually happen unfortunately and
16:35
it happens throughout our whole life because we’re not trained to release it on a daily basis that’s really clear
16:41
thank you for explaining that that makes a ton of sense and yes like Thea of like the last time I was this open I was really sad or I was really angry or I
16:48
was afraid so like let’s not go there again um we’re going to move to our first commercial break when we come back
16:53
we’re going to dig deeper into this topic and talk specifically about areas where men tend to be stuck which you
16:58
know my kind novice understanding is a lot of hips and a lot of like traps but you can let me know I’m right about that
17:04
when we come back um so if you’re listening hang on in there and we’ll see you on the other [Music]
17:19
[Music] side want to see what voice America is
17:26
up to behind the scenes close follow us on Tik Tok at voice Amer
17:34
talk radio men’s therapy online is now accepting new members men’s therapy
17:40
online offers a solution to the lack of outlets for emotional expression positive role models and access to
17:46
meaningful Milestone experiences in our postco world loneliness is at an alltime
17:52
high men need consistent Community our society is rapidly changing old models
17:58
of masculinity are falling at the task of promoting emotional intelligence and meaningful connection men’s therapy
18:04
online offers tools and experiences designed to help the men who is struggling to balance traditional male
18:10
roles and emotional fluidity whether you need to get back on your feet or take your life to the next level men’s
18:18
therapy online has your back we help our members become a true 21st century man a
18:24
man who is not burdened by the rapid change of society but who contributes to it honorably if you’re interested in
18:30
signing up and finding your Band of Brothers go to men’s therapy. online to learn more that’s men’s therapy. online
18:39
start your journey today do you ever feel like you’re just
18:45
going through the motions Jan Jones wants to boost your energy and ignite the power inside you the good good life
18:53
with Jan Jones Fridays at 10: a.m. Pacific Time on The Voice America empowerment Channel
18:58
[Music]
19:08
Channel success Starts Here voice Amer empowerment.com it’s your
19:15
[Music]
19:21
world you’re listening to the men’s therapy podcast with Mark aalay to reach
19:26
the show today please call 1 888 346 9141 that’s 1888
19:33
34691 41 or send an email through podcast at Men’s therapy. online or
19:39
visit www.men theapy podcast.com now back to the men’s therapy podcast
19:46
welcome back to the men’s therapy podcast um Amy you did a phenomenal job of I think explaining the connection
19:52
between the mind and the body where emotions get stored how these patterns can kind of get set over time and be
19:58
really um sneaky in some ways right because it’s kind like the Frog boiling in the water so I’m curious to go a
20:05
little bit deeper and specifically around um male clients right being the men’s DIY podcast we got talk about dudes I’m curious what are some common
20:13
defensive patterns I guess I guess emotionally and physically that you see in the male clients that you work
20:19
with so very common if you think about like a Superman posture or military
20:24
posture I see that to regardless of of the weight of the person um where they
20:31
puff out their chest they suck their gut in um they pull the shoulders back and
20:36
so often a lot of emotions get stored at the base of the breast bone
20:42
right in the hips and the low back it’s very very common um we’re often kind
20:49
of told in society that it’s women that whose hips should move and be able to
20:54
sachche back and forth men are supposed to have that as well but we often kind of see men as a solid block of cement
21:03
and it doesn’t have this fluidity that it should that a person should and I
21:08
often use example of like a boxer so when we think of like a boxer or a fighter they don’t have that Superman
21:16
posture their ribs are actually down there’s not this rib flare at the bottom
21:22
where the gut is sucked in their the ribs are actually down and they have both power speed Flex ility Mobility
21:30
because they have been trained to hold the rib cage down and granted they do have a protective nature in that sport
21:38
but they can’t hold that protection all the time otherwise they won’t be able to punch they won’t be able to kick and so
21:44
part of working with men is recognizing that they do have areas where they store
21:52
some of these emotions and we have to work through that but also I have to be
21:59
scientific and explain how things work so that the brain can absorb it all and
22:06
put it to work so a lot of times depending on the the male and the person
22:11
I often don’t dive into emotions or even talk about them unless they Broach it with me I’m very very scientific very
22:19
specific and I have to make sure I prove everything so if I tell you your breast
22:25
bone is in the wrong position and it is causing your pain in your low back where you’re guarding emotions I have to very
22:32
quickly get you to feel that yeah yeah and and and feeling sometimes for men is
22:39
not a top priority and sometimes it’s more visual stuff but I have to get you to feel it
22:46
very quickly so I might have to put you in several different positions to to
22:52
elicit it as quickly as possible so that you buy into what I’m saying so that you
22:57
can even trust to me that I’m actually leading you on this path and not just
23:03
bsing my way through a session yeah I think the the safety and the trust is huge you know I think about my my
23:09
experience is working with a PT and it’s like the idea of like I’m in some really painful stuff that I self judge
23:16
shouldn’t be that painful right because it’s like little micro movements that’s like oh my God right and and I think as
23:22
a a client or a patient I have to relax during that right I need to make sure that I’m not fighting it and I’m not
23:29
like like you said counter resisting or snapping back so I think there is a lot of this like Rapport building of like oh
23:35
can I trust that this person knows what they’re talking about and that they’re not going to like I don’t know shatter my ankle or something right and that I
23:40
can feel safe enough to relax and and let that stuff sequence and discharge right and many men are very
23:48
back dominant where their back muscles move them and the fight ORF flight
23:53
nervous system lies along the back so the more the back muscles are kicked in that compresses on the sympathetic
23:59
nervous system the more the body is tight and I often hear oh I have tight hamstrings I need to stretch stret
24:05
stretch and I the first thing I say is no do not stretch those hamstrings you’re trying to apply something
24:12
external to the body to cause a muscle to stretch but the nervous system is
24:17
telling it to contract so you are potentially stretching a muscle that
24:22
shouldn’t be stretched and instead let’s learn how to teach the nervous system to really set muscle and let’s teach the
24:30
back muscles to stop compressing on that nervous system that’s causing you to tighten
24:35
up and that’s a huge concept for a lot of men because if we can get them to
24:42
release the back and not be in this power pose all the time and to learn how
24:48
to relax they feel better and I can help
24:53
change their emotions without even talking about emotions or having them talk and tell me
24:59
what’s going on obviously I’m always open for someone to tell me something that’s going on but a lot of times they
25:05
don’t even want to say it but if I can get them to calm down and relax and feel better they either might be able to
25:12
address a situation on their own or with their therapist better or they might say something to me or the situation
25:18
resolves because their behavior changes in their environment outside of our
25:23
sessions right yeah it’s real bottom up work right you’re really change like the Foundation that like their emotional
25:30
mind overlays I know you talked a lot about the the power pose I’m I’m curious about like what about the nerdneck pose
25:36
right or like the kind of slunch slouched over you know desk worker pose that I think a lot of you know men and
25:42
women really inhabit what is that one like there is so a lot of times even with that
25:49
slouched over posture the back muscles are still working the back muscles are
25:55
still working to try to either pull them back on the top half of their body or if they’re slouched the lower back muscles
26:02
are working to support them because the back isn’t touching something so depending on the person we
26:09
have to work on getting them to get their rib cage where the rib cage is touching the back of a chair so it can
26:16
learn to relax down into a neutral position where it’s not overarched and
26:21
not overs slumped but how do you hold yourself in this neutral position that’s relaxed that gives you the freedom of
26:28
movement in all the joints in your body and so there’s this interplay in
26:35
getting someone to sense and feel all that without going to either
26:41
extreme yeah how do you do that I mean that it sounds like it’s it’s magic I mean
26:46
it’s byep process not magic trust me these people work really hard to
26:52
accomplish this but we’ll start in a seated position we’ll go on the back LAN laying down maybe the feet up on a chair
27:00
we do some work on the side work on hands and knees work on standing maybe possibly kneeling so depending on how
27:07
the person’s body shows up and I do this on Zoom so I’m watching their body constantly whatever I see in their body
27:15
all I can explain it and I’ll point out to them say hey this left side of your rib cage is flared up your tilt is
27:21
sideways you’re holding yourself in this power pose but maybe slightly slumped in this area so
27:28
I want you to sit here in this chair we’re going to have your knees at the height of your hip crease we’re going to
27:34
have you work on your hand going down on your left lower ribs we’re going to have you breathe out and as you breathe out I
27:41
want you to feel the ribs sink in so your low back releases and you calm down and so that’s an example of something I
27:48
might do with someone and then I’ll we do that for a few minutes and then I ask him well how
27:55
do you feel Mark did you what did you feel and I don’t ask I don’t try to trigger I just say what do you feel what
28:01
did you experience So based on what they told me you said hey okay I could feel
28:06
my chest go in here and I could feel my rib start to go in I could feel maybe my
28:12
back relaxing a little bit but not fully and so okay we’ll take that information now I’m going to have you do this this
28:18
and this with your body to try to get you to the next step where you can feel the back
28:23
relax and so that’s we just work through your body to get you to the point where
28:28
you can feel the breast bone melt in ribs drop down the belly let go your body just soothe
28:36
itself and often and I have a new I have a new client that I just started working with who is very ramped up and he told
28:43
me his problem was he’s always felt like he was never enough so he has done every sport you
28:50
can imagine he’s built businesses he has um challenged his body he’s had multi
28:55
multiple surgeries and he said it’s all because he wasn’t he didn’t feel like he
29:01
was enough and so I told him I said’ when we start doing
29:06
this you might feel really tired and sleepy that is okay and I want you to go
29:11
into that because part of being not enough is I need to be awake at 5: in the morning I need to be um meditating
29:19
and working out and building a business and having a family and eating healthy and it was from morning to night this
29:27
him and I said when you start doing this and calming your nervous system down you have to be okay with
29:33
sleeping you have to be okay with being lazy so your body can
29:39
recoup from being on edge your whole entire life and I have to warn people
29:45
that because that’s a real phenomenon and if you’ve been on and pushing and pushing and pushing your whole entire
29:52
life you will try to resist this feeling of relaxation but your body has to
29:58
re-equilibrate and it has to get used to how to feel relaxed and have
30:05
energy and not equate that with being lazy and being a slob and that’s hard it’s hard and
30:13
that’s the emotional work right there right I mean a lot of the guys I work with have that exact presentation and
30:19
like that fear of being a lazy slob is also the fuel that they’ve that their success is powered by you know they have
30:26
the Fortune side effect that you talked about where they don’t feel any of that success and they feel empty and Hollow and pissed off all the time but like
30:33
there is a a there is a real benefit to that so the idea of being like hey you might have to give up the fuel that’s
30:38
been running your life can be really difficult um but necessary right because I think that correlates with like I
30:44
don’t know heart attack and cancer and all these kind of long-term health issues right it it really does and once
30:50
they realize that the drive that they used to have that’s contributing to their success and
30:57
also contributing to their health issues they can actually change how that
31:03
works so they recoup the energy that’s being given off on this drive drive
31:09
drive and actually feel calm and still accomplish pretty much all those
31:16
successes but in a calm way once they realize that they can make that switch
31:22
and still accomplish everything you do not switch back yeah and say that and I
31:28
granted I’m a female but I used to be that way I used to conquer the world and
31:33
not sleep and all of that and so there are females out there that are that go
31:38
through that as well but I know it’s very prevalent in with males and learning how to shift that and
31:45
still have the energy is it’s a fabulous feeling let me tell you it’s amazing I
31:52
know it’s making me en I got to call you after this podcast and get get on your client load I mean I mean that’s that’s
31:57
like that’s magical to be able to switch to like that renewable energy source and that calm energy source um and we talked
32:05
a little bit over the break about how this could apply to entrepreneurs I think you’re saying some of that but um how about direct like how how does this
32:11
work with entrepreneurs and leaders and people that are kind of um you know on their own in some ways so some of the
32:19
benefits that people have mentioned and I’ve seen in people is their emotional reactivity is less with their business
32:26
whether it’s sales aren’t where they should be or with their employees the
32:31
emotional reactivity so they have a better work environment the other aspect is stress is less um they can be more
32:39
focused on whatever task that they’re looking to accomplish because they can calm themselves down and then put energy
32:46
towards what they need to put energy in their creativity improves as well
32:51
because they’re not in such a heightened state that they’re not on edge all that
32:57
the time I have a gentleman right now he’s a VP of a national company and he
33:02
travels quite a bit and when I first started working with him he was really
33:07
really ramped up on edge and he couldn’t sit still and he was also a runner and
33:14
heed running as his form to calm himself down because it basically beat it out of himself but as we started doing things
33:22
he noticed that his relationships with both co-workers and at home changed quite a bit and he even said to me he’s
33:29
like gosh I feel calm all the time he’s like things just don’t matter so much I don’t get wound up on stuff and he and
33:36
every time I work with him he comes to me he’s like oh my gosh I can see my coworker are so ramped up and that that
33:43
coworker so ramped up and that employee ramped up like why in the world are he so ramped up and I say to him that’s how
33:49
you used to be it really was and now that you can see that you don’t have to
33:55
be that way share the wellth tell try to try to have you know those conversations
34:01
with your co-workers and see if you can calm them down a little but and just get
34:07
them to shift their energy because when you’ve shifted your energy and you can now feel the difference when someone’s
34:16
really just coming at you and they’re wound up so tight on something that’s so insignificant and you can switch your
34:23
brain from being this emotional reactive brain into a solution or ented brain
34:28
which is ideally what we want as an entrepreneur we’re all about how do we find solutions for the customer to help
34:36
our business grow or shift and change yeah yeah I mean it it’s that’s s
34:42
so real it makes me think of um eole his idea of a pain body are you familiar with that I’ve heard of it yes yeah yeah
34:49
I mean it’s what you’re talking about it’s like a so there’s a spiritual lens to this too this idea that like we carry
34:54
around this trauma and this pain and it’s physic IAL mental psychic emotional all of it and just what he says like
35:00
once you start to heal your pain body you become almost painfully aware of everyone else’s yes because you’re like
35:06
one you’re more open you’re not in your own kind of like mental storm but two because you you’re familiar with it
35:11
you’re like oh my God that person really is suffering right now or that person is depressed like you just get more clear
35:16
seeing absolutely and it’s vital it’s really vital and your health other
35:23
health benefits from that just go through the roof we know that stress affects every organ system in our body
35:30
so the more you can calm yourself and change how you perceive what’s going on
35:35
around you the better it is for from head to toe inside and out oh yeah so
35:41
we’re going to move to our final commercial break when we come back Amy’s going to give you some exercises that you can do immediately if you feel
35:47
inspired by this podcast so stuff that you can just take on the road and and start practicing so if you’re listening
35:53
hang on in and we’ll see you on the other side
36:06
[Music]
36:12
voice America is on LinkedIn connect with us today men’s therapy online is
36:18
now accepting new members men’s therapy online offers a solution to the lack of outlets for emotional expression
36:25
positive role models and access to meaningful Milestone experiences in our postco world loneliness is at an
36:32
all-time high men need consistent Community our society is rapidly changing old models of masculinity are
36:39
falling at the task of promoting emotional intelligence and meaningful connection men’s therapy online offers
36:46
tools and experiences designed to help the men who is struggling to balance traditional male roles and emotional
36:52
fluidity whether you need to get back on your feet or take your life to the next level men’s therapy online has your back
37:00
we help our members become a true 21st century man a man who is not burdened by
37:06
the rapid change of society but who contributes to it honorably if you’re interested in signing up and finding
37:12
your Band of Brothers go to men’s therapy. online to learn more that’s
37:17
men’s therapy. online start your journey
37:22
today are you inspired by stories about personal empowerment well-being and the
37:28
motivation to achieve more get ready for next steps forward with Chris Meek each
37:33
week Chris will talk with experts and icons from different walks of life who personify energy Direction excitement
37:41
and purpose as they take bold steps forward in pursuit of excellence and service to others tune in to next steps
37:48
forward Tuesdays at 1:00 p.m. eastern time 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time on The Voice America empowerment
37:55
Channel we’re on Facebook along with some of the greatest minds of the world and that
38:01
includes you visit us on Facebook at voice America
38:08
[Music] empowerment you listening to the men’s
38:13
therapy podcast with Mark aalay to reach the show today please call 1888 34691 41
38:21
that’s 1888 346 9141 or send an email to podcast at
38:26
Men’s therapy. online or visit www. men theapy podcast.com
38:32
now back to the men’s therapy podcast welcome back to the show in this segment we talk right to you the listener and
38:39
give you some take-homes that you can do right away so Amy take it away where can people start if they want to do some of
38:44
this work there so I’ll give a little bit of uh some suggestions obviously
38:50
they can go to my website and learn more about it but let’s get let’s get real
38:55
and talk about what can you start with so for those of you who are sitting um
39:01
or if you’re not please sit and let’s sit back in a chair with a tall enough
39:06
back to it that it gets to your shoulders when you’re sitting in a chair and this should be how you sit all the
39:14
time especially if you’re sitting for a prolonged period of time you want to sit all the way back to the back of the
39:19
chair let your low back touch the back of the chair without putting a lumbar support there if you have back pain you
39:26
might need that Lumber support initially but eventually you want to be able to not have to use it or not rely on it but
39:34
let’s say you don’t have it you let your low back sit all the way back in the chair let your tailbone tuck under a little bit so it should feel like you’re
39:40
slouching a tiny bit you want your feet flat on the ground and then look at the
39:46
height of your your knees compared to the crease in the front of your hip for most people who are 6’2 or lower
39:54
or shorter the chair is often Too Tall often the knee is lower than that
40:01
hip crease so we want to get it at the level of the hip crease or slightly higher so either lower the chair or put
40:07
something underneath your feet and I’m being very specific on this because how you position yourself will determine
40:14
whether or not you can relax so once you get into that position you can start to sense the low back
40:22
possibly relaxing a little okay that gets us into the state where we need to to start changing our breathing
40:29
mechanics from there we can start a little bit of a little bit of a breathing
40:35
exercise we’re going to focus a little bit on how you exhale and changing how you exhale you can’t change the way you
40:42
inhale until you change the way you exhale so we’re going to do a little bit on how you exhale what I usually tell people is to
40:49
use a straw cut it in half and put it between their lips that helps us blow out a cylinder of air which we’re trying
40:57
to get our rib cage back into a cyinder formation not an hourglass formation
41:02
okay so if we then take one hand and put it on our chest one hand on our belly sitting back in that chair we’re
41:10
going to do a four-step process we’re going to breathe in through the nose pause and hold our breath for a second
41:17
blow out through our mouth and then pause and hold our breath for 2 to 3 seconds that’s just the very beginning
41:25
to changing your breathing mechanics so we’ll go through it and I’ll just coach you through a little bit more beyond
41:31
that okay so if you want if you’re listening go ahead and just close your eyes just try to get rid of any other
41:39
input so one hand on your chest one hand on your belly we’re going to gently breathe in your
41:45
nose pause and then blow out through your mouth or straw hear the air coming
41:51
out of your mouth hold and breathe in feel the air
41:57
go in your nose gently and blow out feel your chest melt
42:04
in under your hand blow all the way out
42:09
hold and breathe in feel the air go in your nose
42:15
gently and blow out feel your chest melt in feel the ribs drop down your belly
42:22
comes out hold and breathe in feel the air go
42:28
in your nose to your throat gently and blow out feel the chest melt
42:34
in feel the collar bones drop down ribs drop down hold and breathe in feel the
42:42
air go in your nose passively and blow out chest melts in
42:51
feel the wave as your low back RS go belly softens hold
42:57
and breathe in feel the air go in your nose to your throat and blow out feel the chest melt
43:06
in feel the rib cage drop down the belly softens hold and breathe in feel the air
43:14
go in your nose without a lot of effort and blow out feel the chest melt
43:22
in feel the ribs dropping down the belly soften one more and breathe in feel the air go
43:31
in and blow out feel the wave going down your body as your ribs drop down away
43:38
from your head and take a break so what we were doing there is
43:45
we’re just getting started with changing the mechanics of how you breathe by first putting you into a position that
43:52
suits your body to be able to turn off the fight ORF flight nervous system system what we were doing there was just
43:59
going over changing how to get your exhalation to adjust so that you stop
44:05
clenching the belly and you work on releasing it out as the chest goes in to
44:12
help the body start to release some of the tension it’s held over the years now for some they may feel the
44:19
chest go in they may feel the belly spill out but for others they may not feel either or they may feel one or the
44:25
other if you can’t feel either or if you can only feel one or the other that
44:30
doesn’t mean this is a wrong position for you and you shouldn’t practice I would still say practice it but it means
44:35
we need an additional position to get you to be able to sense that happening so that might mean I put you on your
44:42
side or put you on your back or curl you up or put you on your hands and knees depending on the person and what else is
44:49
going on in their lives so every piece of your history matters your medical
44:54
history matters your emotional history matters your stress history matters your dietary history matters and that would
45:00
determine what positions are good for you to elicit the response so you’re successful in feeling what we need you
45:07
to feel to calm down yeah that was really great and I’d encourage you all to like download that
45:13
listen to it again um do you have EXs like that on your website where people can go and watch or on your YouTube I do
45:18
it on my YouTube so I do have obviously there’s interviews on my website but on
45:24
my YouTube channel I do have um some breathing exercises on there that goes through that cool and that’ll be in the
45:29
show notes if you want to take that with you and and practice um you know at home I’m curious but before we wrap up Amy
45:36
like we talked a lot about the people that are really spun up do you work with people that are not spun up enough right
45:42
like I’m thinking people that are maybe depressed or you know feel very lethargic or heavy or that kind of thing
45:49
I do it’s not as often as most people are ramped up but I do work with people
45:55
who are depressed but there’s an underlying ramped up feeling occasionally I’ll get some people who
46:01
are very lethargic or very just like they don’t have enough tone in their
46:07
body and they’re just kind of like this puddle and there’s an underlying
46:13
depression that’s associated with it and for them we work a lot on stabilization and still feeling because when a person
46:21
can feel something and they can produce that feeling that gives them a sense of
46:26
control and a sense of confidence and it starts to boost them up okay so you can work from either end
46:32
of the spectrum right yes yeah yeah I’m wondering do you have like it’s a fantasy I have about you like do you
46:38
have like a second site can you like tell people um tell their emotions based on how they move through the world or
46:44
how their posture is like what’s it like to have this knowledge you can read people really
46:50
well yeah yeah I’m curious what that’s like yeah it it feels it’s great um I
46:56
try not to read into it and try and I work very hard to not make anything up
47:01
that I don’t see as true but I can get a sense of if a person’s on edge or if
47:07
they’re ramped up and what I’ll do is I’ll change myself to work to bring them
47:13
down so if a person’s really ramped up I will ramp myself up a little bit to then
47:20
ease them out of it and I don’t do it to play on people at all but I do it to try
47:25
to help them as much as possible but I can watch people just going to the stores and I can see if someone’s ramped
47:32
up or what’s going on and it it does take some practice and I I have a new
47:37
little baby and so I’m very conscious of how I am with him to make sure that how
47:44
I am and other people are I can keep him calm and he’s actually a very chill baby
47:50
I don’t know if that’s the case but you know I do my best but it is it’s a lot
47:55
of fun to do this also in a room where I’m speaking in from in front of an
48:01
audience I’ll change myself based on the feel of the audience and how people are
48:07
responsive and you can have a lot of fun with it yeah I imagine so you know and
48:12
it kind of links with psychology where we talk about like you know when you’re having argument or deescalation tactics
48:17
right the idea is that you want to like you don’t want to go all the way down because if it’s too disparate right the
48:22
person continues to escalate but you want to go like right below where they are and then they’ll go down and then
48:28
you go right below where they are and then they’ll go down and you can like kind of ladder them down yes and I have
48:35
to change how I hold myself and how I position myself and then what I can do is if I’m
48:43
working with them I’ll see or like let’s say we’re talking I’ll change how I stand and then if I get them to calm
48:50
down I might say hey let’s go sit down so I’m just slowly getting them to curl
48:56
up or um you know just shift their body and it’s really powerful that’s very
49:02
powerful yeah yeah yeah so I’m curious as for another tool do you have something that someone could do to
49:08
diagnose themselves to see if they need to do some of this work or maybe some symptoms that they might be experiencing
49:14
to be like hey maybe need to look into my nervous system and and get some help in this department so yeah so anytime if
49:21
you’re emotionally reactive water spills and you have a a reaction to that and you should
49:28
definitely get some help um on emotional world yes anytime you’re struggling with
49:35
different relationships then I would look at it from a physical if you have any type of pain then this can help from
49:43
another physical way to look at it is if you feel the lower front ribs on your
49:48
body and if you have your hands on those lower ribs and you drop down from there
49:53
and you feel like there’s a a drop off like it caves in or the ribs are flared
49:59
out you can definitely do some work if you look at yourself in the mirror and
50:05
you can see that your rib cage is high if you’re standing and you feel your weight not on your heels highly likely
50:13
you can use some work if they’re on the balls of their feet you need some work if you look at your body position your
50:20
posture if your pelvis is in front of your your shoulders or behind your shoulders this could work this can be
50:26
some work for you um if you’re having anxiety and you feel ramped up if you’re
50:33
having trouble sleeping and you have a a mind that’s racing it’s another thing
50:38
insomnia is something we work with as well to calm the body so the mind can calm down so you can fall asleep um
50:45
digestive issues is another place where you can see a problem is when you have
50:51
digestive issues usually nervous system related as well yeah so it really it’s
50:56
connected to all kinds of different things and I’m hearing like if there’s like a feeling of like antin or you know
51:02
itchiness or or just tension that you carry with you I think it can be helpful and and I just you want to endorse it
51:07
you know I think doing body work is critical on the mental health path um like I said for me was really my entry
51:13
into mindfulness I realized like oh my God it’s more than just me like changing my mindset you know I need to deal with
51:18
this pain that I carry around deal with this trauma that’s locked away and all these weird places in my body and it’s
51:24
this idea of holistic care you know so I really appreciate you coming on the show and
51:29
presenting this more physical side of things um because I think it’s it’s critical for for health um so as a
51:36
wrapping up where can people find you online if they want to learn more about you and about your Institute yeah sure
51:42
can I say one more thing before I say that oh yeah for sure yeah so I just want to put this out there that when you
51:49
have pain it’s not just in your head I have never worked with someone and I’ve
51:55
worked with a lot of people over the years there was always a physical component if had many people been
52:01
referred to me and the word malingering was was told to me they
52:08
weren’t mingering there was a physical component to their pain so and I say
52:13
that because people can get very frustrated when they have a physical pain and people just say oh it’s just in
52:19
my head I’m like no I want you to know I do believe there is a physical reason
52:25
and even if you do have stress and other triggers so I just want to put that out there because people need to be
52:30
validated that we can always find the reason why there is a physical pain so
52:36
just keep that in mind so I just wanted to say that um but the best way to find me is p institute.com it’s
52:43
PBR institute.com pain awareness breathing relief and then institute.com
52:50
right yeah and you can you know Booker for some coaching sessions you have your YouTube that has all the breathing
52:55
techniques they don’t want to do it on their own there’s tons of great resources there it’s a wonderful site um so definitely go check it out if you’re
53:02
interested in learning more if you want to work with Amy um if you want to just explore some of this um you know I I
53:07
think you got the sense from this conversation that she’s going to prove it to you you know so if you get on a call she’ll make you feel stuff she’ll
53:14
make you uh move around you know she definitely puts her money where her mouth is so Amy thank you so much for
53:19
coming on the show thank you for having me Mark it’s a pleasure yeah and if you enjoyed this show um send to some who
53:25
you think might also benefit from it give us a festar review on Apple podcast we’re working to build those up um like
53:30
us on Spotify just get it out there it really helps to get those messages out to guys that want to um work on their
53:36
mental health and to help break the stigma around you know self-improvement right like we all need help doesn’t mean anything’s wrong with us get out there
53:43
make it happen um thank you so much for tuning in and we’ll see you next week another episode of the men’s therapy
53:49
[Music] podcast thank you for joining your host
53:54
mark aile on the men’s therapy podcast be sure to tune in again live next Friday at 2: p.m. eastern time and 11:00
54:01
a.m. Pacific Time on The Voice America empowerment Channel and anywhere podcas are found to support the show leave a
54:07
review on your favorite podcast platform for more information or to apply to be a guest visit
54:13
www.menstherapy podcast.com
Unpack what a modern midlife crisis actually looks like. Learn why the old stereotypes get it wrong. Discover how it can become an initiation instead of a collapse.
Listen Now
Confused about CBT, psychodynamic, somatic, or group therapy? Learn how different types of therapy work, how to find the right approach, and when men may need deeper work or accountability.
Listen NowGet expert insights, podcast drops, blog highlights, and upcoming events straight to your inbox,
built for men who want to grow, lead, and live with purpose.
Address: PO Box 142, Evergreen, CO 80439
Phone: (301) 442-9119
MTO connects men with licensed practitioners who provide guidance and support for navigating the challenges of modern life. These coaching services are not a substitute for mental health treatment, emergency services, or crisis support.
