Group Therapy That Changes Men w/ Jack Donovan

Group Therapy That Changes Men: Holding the Perimeter Together w/ Jack Donovan

June 2, 2025

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In a compelling episode of the Men’s Therapy Podcast, host Marc Azoulay sits down with Jack Donovan. He is the author of The Way of Men and Fire in the Dark. He is also the founder of Solar Idealism and The Order of Fire, a men’s community centered around strength, purpose, and brotherhood.

Donovan is not your typical guest. In his early twenties, he identified as a feminist. Over time, real-life experiences challenged his beliefs. This led him to question mainstream ideology and revisit the meaning of modern masculinity. “I started to question a lot of things I was told… and I realized no one was explaining masculinity very well,” Donovan explains.

The episode explores how men often feel alienated in today’s world. It shows how group therapy, bonding, and initiation rituals can help them reconnect. These practices offer clarity, stability, and a sense of purpose. Donovan explores what it means to be a man today. He draws on mythology and psychology to shape his ideas. His framework is thoughtful and sometimes provocative.

The Small Unit: Why Group Therapy Works for Men

Donovan emphasizes that group therapy is not just a modern mental health tool. It reflects how men have always formed their identities. “The unit of masculinity is a gang,” he asserts. “You don’t develop a solid masculine identity from women, or from things you buy. It comes from belonging within a group of men.”

In his experience running The Order of Fire, Donovan finds that groups larger than 10 often stifle authentic expression. “Men won’t talk in a group of 20. Break them into smaller groups, and they start building identities, giving themselves names, and sharing daily.”

This mirrors what many clinicians observe in group therapy. It’s the intimate, bonded group—like a fire team or platoon—where growth truly happens. These spaces serve as modern versions of ancient initiation rituals. Where men once proved themselves and learned to hold the line.

Holding the Perimeter: Masculine Archetypes in Practice

A key metaphor in Donovan’s philosophy is the warrior archetype—not in the violent or hyper-masculine sense, but as a guardian of order. “Men naturally understand the need to hold the perimeter,” he says. “Whether it’s your home, your business, or your family, you’re establishing a space of safety.”

He expands on this metaphor in his book Fire in the Dark, comparing a masculine presence to a firelight in the wilderness. Inside that circle is order, clarity, and peace. Outside is the unknown—chaos. “When you hear something move outside the firelight, you’re having the same reaction your ancestors did,” Donovan explains.

This masculine psychology is rooted not in dominance, but in responsibility and awareness. And it’s something many Gen Z and millennial men, especially those raised without strong male role models, find missing in their lives.

Fatherlessness, Responsibility, and the Quest for Guidance

One of the most pressing issues explored in the episode is fatherlessness. It is a crisis Donovan links to many of the mental and emotional struggles men face. “You’re not going to find a father later in life,” he says bluntly. “You have to become your own father. Or look to myths and gods for that guidance.”

Azoulay echoes the same, noting that many of his clients in group therapy struggle with boundary-setting, confidence, and accountability. These are areas where traditional fathers might once have provided mentorship and challenge. Donovan argues that too many men today fall into one of two extremes. Total abandonment of masculinity or radical overcompensation. “You can’t go back and relive your childhood. You’re a man now. You have to move forward.”

Myth, Meaning, and the Return of Norse Gods

One of the most fascinating aspects of the conversation revolves around Norse gods and mythological figures such as Odin, Thor, and Loki. Donovan sees these ancient stories not as relics, but as powerful archetypes that still resonate with men today.

“Odin is the king archetype—but also the magician. Thor is the striker, the doer. These are projections of what men see in themselves,” he explains. Myths, he argues, are not just stories—they’re maps for growth. In an era of modern therapy, these timeless metaphors may provide something many men lack. They provide a vision of greatness, rooted in imperfection and struggle, but still worthy of pursuit.

Conclusion

This episode of the Men’s Therapy Podcast offers more than just insight—it’s a call to action. Men today face digital distractions, absent fathers, and changing social roles. Donovan offers a clear message: true identity comes from connection. Isolation, he argues, weakens that sense of self. Men can rediscover themselves through group therapy and close male communities. Reconnecting with masculine archetypes also plays a key role. These paths help men see both who they are and who they could become.“Men need order and structure in their lives,” Donovan says. “Without responsibility, many will self-destruct. But in the right environment, they build, protect, and thrive.”

About Jack Donovan

Jack Donovan is a renowned author and thinker on masculinity, best known for his influential books The Way of Men and Fire in the Dark. He has a background that spans the arts and manual labor. Donovan brings a unique perspective to male identity—one that is rooted in experience, philosophy, and myth. He is the founder of Solar Idealism. It is a personal philosophy emphasizing strength, honor, and tribal brotherhood. He leads a men’s group known as The Order of Fire, which fosters connection, self-discipline, and shared growth among its members.

Resources Mentioned

The Way of Men by Jack Donovan

Fire in the Dark by Jack Donovan

Iron John by Robert Bly

King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette

Connect with Jack

Website

Instagram

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