Building a Community of Recovery w/ Rashad Sutton

Building a Community of Recovery w/ Rashad Sutton

April 17, 2024

We are not an island. Men need support from other men. Our guest, Rashad Sutton, is a peer recovery coach and works as a business development professional for Raleigh House, a substance abuse treatment center in Denver, CO. He is passionate about connecting men in recovery with other guys who are on the same path. Join us as we talk about the importance of community in the healing process.

Episode Transcript:

0:56

welcome to the show I’m your host Mark azoulay and I’m here with Sutton uh he is a business development expert that works

1:02

for the Raleigh house which is a wonderful Treatment Center here in Colorado and he’s a man in recovery himself and his expertise is about

1:09

building community so Rashad welcome to the show hey thank you for having me yeah I’m excited to have this

1:15

conversation because I I think like where I first experienced recovery especially like emotionally intelligent

1:20

recovery was in the rooms right was doing AA and then when I got through

1:26

that right I was like wait why doesn’t this exist in the world you know and a lot of my my business MTO is about kind

1:32

of providing that in something that is more expansive than recovery so I’m excited to talk to you about your

1:37

experience building Community yeah um I I think you know I well I went to a treatment center I’m

1:44

sure we’ll get into it um was it 12st step centered uh Treatment Center so exactly that thing of like immediately

1:50

stepped into community and didn’t feel like kind of Alone um on this journey of recovery so it was very important yeah

1:57

did you have the same experience I did like I don’t think I heard men being emotional or talking about like anything

2:03

challenging until I was in the rooms did you have that same thing yeah um and it

2:08

quickly um quickly changed I feel like I I had always been I didn’t think I I

2:15

didn’t think I knew it but it’s something I had been really longing for to be able to really kind of express

2:20

myself and talk about um what was bothering me or even my triumphs right in a way that wasn’t um boastful or

2:28

trying to be bigger then so yeah it was um it was really impactful yes yeah not having that hierarchy and we’ll

2:34

definitely talk about that right the kind of like one upmanship that can be in so many male cultures um it’s great

2:40

yeah like when you’re in AA once everybody hits the Rock Bottom like there’s no there’s no one upmanship because we’re all kind of coming back

2:45

from zero in a way yeah I heard a man say um very early in recovery that none

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of us flew in here on the wings of Victory like you know none of us none of

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us are kind of starting from the top and kind of d dipping down we’re all we’re all struggling with something and that’s

3:02

the reason that’s what brought us here so absolutely I agree with that yeah so let’s pivot to your story I mean what

3:08

how didd you get into this work and and how do you become the man you are today yeah um you know it’s interesting

3:16

because my story isn’t one of like um you know I I didn’t have a horrible

3:23

background I had pretty normal upbringing I grew up here in Denver um pretty normal family you know I always

3:29

like to say it kind of like I got a car when I was 16 like no like extreme poverty or anything like that pretty

3:35

normal story um the big thing for me was you know I got um I was pretty decently

3:43

successful I was married pretty early um had a daughter pretty young um and I

3:50

just drank a lot but it was like as long as my life was kind of in order um it

3:56

didn’t seem to be a problem you know I call it like my bent straw per period there was a I was the guy at the bar

4:02

with the uh the bourbon on rocks with the bent straw cuz I’m too manly to drink out of a straw you know um and I

4:10

was just kind of that guy every weekend and um you know that led to um copious

4:16

amounts of cocaine use um but once again I was always prided myself on uh waking

4:21

up and going to work every day um and that kind of made it okay you know it

4:27

was I was successful so I don’t really have a a problem um I just can drink

4:32

more than you I just I can hold my liquor better than you you know so it would be a problem if you did it but I’m

4:38

I’m good at this um and and that was a while right and then and then my cocaine

4:44

use got pretty out of control um had a um I had a suicide

4:51

attempt um pretty deep into that I just felt like I

4:57

was you know I wasn’t providing for my family I was spending all our money on coke I was embarrassed I was ashamed and

5:03

so to me um it felt like the way out was to you know I won’t be a burden um

5:11

obviously didn’t work I’m still here so I um after that I was able to quit using cocaine I stopped using it all together

5:18

and that was kind of like it seems like it would be great for this story but it was

5:24

actually really bad because it was self-will and so that led me to believe oh I’m I’m bigger in this thing I can

5:30

start and stop anything I want I was able to put down Coke I’m fine um you know I uh I moved out to

5:39

California started new life you know that kind of like uh Geographic solution you know um my wife and I are still

5:45

together things at this time things are good um I’ve always kind of had this problem

5:52

with [Music] um the person who I present and the

5:57

person who I am being at odds so anytime I would get out of um a supervi space

6:04

you know the real me would come out I started doing things that um shouldn’t have been in character but they actually

6:11

were that’s who I really was um so all that to say I was working I was doing

6:17

fine and um I started traveling a lot for work so once I was traveling for

6:22

work you know I’m trolling on bars and and and bars and um online and looking

6:28

for elicit drugs you know I start picking up cocaine and stuff again cuz nobody will know um and then that

6:35

fateful Night Comes where uh someone offers me something I think it’s Coke I

6:41

knew it wasn’t Coke I knew it was meth and um and that started me down this

6:47

long long road of addiction you know um I have I don’t know if this is appropriate

6:54

to say but I have a buddy that described it so perfectly he says you know once you find once you find your drug Choice

7:00

every other drug is like a hand job it’ll get the job done but it’s not what you want you know

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and and that was me with meth like once I found it I was Off to the Races you

7:11

know and then it was the classic story um you know pretty soon after that I me

7:18

and my wife uh left we separated and and that hit me kind of hard so I um I

7:23

stopped for a period because I’m the guy that can stop anything I want um I stopped and I met somebody actually in

7:31

um in a program in the program and I asked her I said hey man I think I might have a problem can we talk about this

7:38

and we start talking and I was like yeah well since my wife left I haven’t picked up I haven’t done anything um it had

7:45

been about 30 days and she goes oh well if you can stop on your own then you’re

7:50

not one of us and um that was all I needed to know right I was like oh well

7:56

I’m not I don’t have a problem you know I made I made a mistake I don’t have a problem problem so um you know I kept that up

8:04

for I mean a good couple months you know um no drinking no drugs none of that

8:11

um until you know my wife didn’t come back you know and so I remember very

8:17

succinctly I was at the gym and I was like what am I doing this

8:23

for um she’s not here she’s not coming back um what am I doing this for you you

8:31

want to use you know and so um you know I got online and I found some I found a

8:38

dealer right then and I remember when he textt me back I left the gym like that’s

8:43

how like strong it was you I was in the middle of a workout and I laughed um I

8:49

laughed and um soon after that I started you know back to using meth and

8:57

um and it was pretty fast my decline it was pretty pretty quickly lost my

9:03

apartment lost my job um and uh that started this cycle that that kind of

9:10

like was for the next couple years I would I’d lose everything i’ get

9:15

clean um I get everything back and I lose everything again I get clean um I

9:21

lose everything again and and that that happened for the next four or five years

9:27

um um uh until I finally I was moved back home I’m here in Colorado and I’m

9:32

doing pretty bad i’ lost a couple jobs I pulled on all my favors I had done

9:37

everything I could do to like rebuild myself lost jobs gain jobs lost jobs

9:43

um and um I remember very distinctly right my

9:49

my uh my sister comes to me and she says um hey I think I think you can do this

9:57

but I think you need some help um she goes will you go to treatment if I pay

10:03

for it and

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um what’s so impactful about that for me is like I needed I think it’s different for everybody but the message that had

10:15

depth and weight to me was that she believed in me is that she’s like I’ll put my money where my mouth is I think

10:22

you can do this um I guess it’s important to say that at this point I had kind of resigned myself to being a

10:28

junkie you know I remember remember clearly the day I started describing myself as a junkie you know um and I was

10:36

thinking if I’m going to be a junkie I’m gonna be like the best junkie I’m gonna have all the connects I’m gonna know all the stuff I’m gonna do all the things

10:42

and so for her to say hey I think you can do this it was the first time I believe that somebody saw me as

10:49

something other than a junkie um she thought I could be successful um and like I said put her

10:55

money where her mouth was um she takes me um out up into the woods up to Evergreen

11:04

and um I uh I get there and

11:11

um I love this story actually there’s a guy and um he’s his white hair and he’s

11:19

kind of an older guy and um he’s shaking kind of like uncontrollably

11:26

he’s and I’m like I I burst into tears I’m crying I’m praying internally oh god

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um that’s me you know I made it I made it before that happened to

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me um I’s like I’ll do whatever they tell me to do here I’m gonna I’m gonna really put my effort into this I don’t

11:45

want to end up like this guy um the thing that makes it funny is I

11:52

find out two weeks later that the guy has cerebal palsy it has nothing to do has nothing to do with drugs you that

12:01

born like that um he been like that whole life you know it scared me it scared me

12:09

and um you know this this program that I was at was all 12-step based um and so

12:17

it was really just a group of men out in the woods going hey man you gotta find Something to Believe In or else you’re

12:24

going to die you know but so lovingly right it was it’s hard

12:32

to express I guess there you know the first day I was there we did a um a new

12:37

guy Circle where everybody goes around tells who they are what their drug choice is and

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um I you know I told you know I’m Rashad and I’m doing math and you know mainly

12:49

um mainly ingesting it live my mom blah blah blah blah ready for a change and um

12:56

in the corner of the room this guy shouts out you were losing your mind and I was like yeah yeah I was and um he

13:05

goes it’s okay bro so was I and that thing hit me you know I was so

13:12

ashamed of my drug of choice you know it’s like the drug not to do it’s like on billboards not even once and I was so

13:19

ashamed and here I was in this room full of people who were struggling with the same thing and we’re all trying to get

13:25

better and we’re all here to help each other um it was huge for me I just felt

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such solidarity in that room um um I

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just felt like I belong for the first time in a long time um you know we I I I really jumped in uh

13:46

with everything I had I really wanted to prove my sister right um I wanted to change my life um and now I had this new

13:55

group of friends you know nobody not nobody but when you get immersed especially in like

14:02

Street jug culture you’re there’s this whole world open to you that you’re not

14:08

aware of it’s like all these kind of underground things that people are doing these kind of I know

14:14

that guy I know what he’s up to I know this guy over here even though you don’t know them you know what they’re up to because you’re up to the same

14:20

stuff and um all my friends use drugs all my friends were in this culture so

14:29

to walk into this place and be immediately embraced um simply because I was

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struggling with the same thing that they were was huge I I felt oh I can I can do

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this I have I instantly have a new group of friends um and friends who don’t want

14:47

anything from me but for me to get well and that was huge for me um I go from

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there um you know I end up uh doing sober living which I think was was huge

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right now I’m living with a group of guys who were all focused on the same thing we’re

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all focused on recovery and so you know we’re doing nightly um Recaps we’re

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talking to each other about what our day was like what our struggles were um as we’re getting ready to go um to meetings

15:19

and things like that together right we’re we’re doing all of this

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together um and it was that thing that that that camaraderie that Fellowship you know um I still had to do the work

15:32

for myself I still had to you know find a sponsor and actually truthfully work

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these steps um so all that stuff was important but having that support structure being

15:44

able to look to my left and to my right and see guys who were doing it with me um was huge I still talked to a lot of

15:50

those guys in you know in my litter um today um that’s still who I bounce things off of who I go to when things

15:57

get hard or when things are great um that group of men um that I came through this with um I think it was I think that

16:06

step is often Overlook that idea of like um sober living and having a group of

16:11

men that you can talk to um or if it’s done it’s not done with that same kind of spirit that kind of like I’m in this

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I’m immersed and I want to get this done I I think it was probably the biggest piece of my recovery you know being at a

16:26

treatment center is a bubble um it’s kind of easy to stay sober in treatment you

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know it’s a little bit harder once you get outside of that you have to deal with real world struggles and

16:37

frustrations and that sort of thing um but here I am today you know I’m a little over three and a half years still

16:44

sober working in the industry helping other men to kind of find their way

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along this path and it’s I I can’t imagine doing anything different um being able to help other men kind of

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gives purpose to the struggles and things I went through you know it makes it so that that time to me wasn’t wasted

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it’s the only way that some of these other men can really relate to me and so um I can’t imagine doing anything else

17:08

now yeah that’s a powerful story I really enjoyed hearing that and I can’t wait to hear more about your ideas

17:15

around community and how to bring that into the world right because when you talk about that I I think back to my

17:21

recovery journey and the guys I met along the way and it’s like it’s some of the closest people that ever been in my life I mean right like I was going

17:27

through the hardest thing I’ve ever went through with people that were also going through it and like you can’t put any

17:33

value on that like that is such a powerful thing it’s ultimate you guys are still in connection and that like

17:38

that like litter like you said is still is still running um so yeah we’re going to move to our commercial break uh when

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we come back we’ll dive into the power of community how to Foster Community um

17:48

what it’s you know how it can be resilient help you kind of get back up and then I also want to talk to you about kind of these cycles of recovery

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cuz I think that’s such a a common theme of like you know Resurrection then burn

18:00

down then resurrect again then like go over and over and over again I think that really discourages a lot of people and I’m hearing that a little bit in

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your story absolutely so we’ll move into our first commercial break when we come back we will dig more into these topics

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see you on the other

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side

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e

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e

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e e

20:38

welcome back to the show I’m here with Rashad Sutton and we’re talking about recovery in community so where we last

20:43

left you know you were in sober living right you had your your tribe your litter like you called them right you guys are go doing life together and some

20:50

of the stuff you talked about is so it’s so awesome right you said you’re doing like nightly debriefs right and you’re encouraging each other to go to meetings

20:57

I’m sure you’re helping each other like get get jobs and and just deal with like life skills like it’s a it’s a squad right like it’s a tribe to go through

21:04

life and I guess the question to kick it off is like well I guess one from your story what is it like now right now that

21:11

you’re three years later and and two like how can we have that in normal life

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like we were saying over the break like we hope you don’t have to get addicted to meth or addicted to drugs to like find your tribe but it seems like it

21:23

seems like that’s the case people need to go through something hard to find their people so yeah I’m curious on your thoughts on those two things yeah I I

21:30

mean I think [Music] um so there’s two things right what’s it

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like now yeah you know I still do a lot of that right I still do um I kind of

21:41

have a rule personally that if if someone asked me to go to a meeting I go you know if I can go if I have if I have

21:48

the the room open in my schedule I go um I need um for the newcomer to see

21:55

that it still it works and it still works M um um far along in my recovery

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journey to to to go to a meeting or to help the newcomer that that um that uh I

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am you I think you know we get you know the way my sponsor puts it we get shiny

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in recovery you know we get we’re like we’re like you know a new Penny you know we get shiny and people want to be

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around that um and I know that when I was in when I was 30 60 990 days out I

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didn’t feel like those guys would want anything to do with me you know um it’s kind of still this dirty drug addict and

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I didn’t think that that they would give me the time of day um and when they did

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there was a huge burst of like self-confidence and this feeling of like oh man I’m I’m still maybe worth

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something um and so I try to give that back today I try to really give that

22:56

back um you know I I also um try to be there you

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know not all of my friends have are without you know some sort of return to use um so being able to love on them and

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love them back into um into the recovery space has been

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great you know even some of those who are like hey man maybe this isn’t for me to still be able to show them love and

23:22

and let them know hey I still care about you um I still want to see you I still want to go to brunch with you you know I

23:28

can’t go clubbing with you but I I love you man I want to be around you um I

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found that that kind of building that tribe to your point right I think takes

23:39

a lot of vulnerability to be honest right it takes a lot of um being willing

23:48

to to give of yourself you know someone told me you know a couple years ago um

23:55

that the measure of friendship is not what you’ll give to another person but what you’ll give up for another person

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you know so being able to sacrifice of my time of my energy um um those things are the things

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I think speak loudest um in developing that tribe right I think the reason that

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we in recovery are probably a little bit more willing and able to do that is

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um man I don’t know I I don’t know I wish I had something a little bit better Mark I don’t know um what are your

24:32

thoughts on that I don’t I really don’t know yeah I I think for men in particular right we need to burn down to

24:38

be humbled you know cuz I think a lot of guys and I was like this it sounds like you were like this like we’re just cocky

24:44

right like we’re like oh I’m built different right I’m stronger I’m smarter there’s like a grandiosity there that I

24:51

think we use to not feel insecure right and like for guys like us where that

24:56

gets popped like real hard I think we go down to this ashes and it’s like okay well I need to rebuild

25:03

from this and I can’t do it alone right I mean I obviously think of the first step right just being like I can’t do

25:09

this alone I need something right I’m powerless on my own um to make these massive changes and I and I think I

25:16

think men need to be humbled I mean hopefully it doesn’t have to be as catastrophic as as our stories but I think men need to be humbled so that we

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can come back stronger than ever 100% 100% I think that I idea I call it you

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know being right sized right um for me when I’m too big I I I feel like a God I

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feel like I deserve you know drugs and every other pleasure that on earth right

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then if I get too low um than I deserve the misery and things like that that come with

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destroying my life you know luckily the middle is huge you know there’s a lot

25:54

lot of play in there there’s a lot of play in the middle um and so U but

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you’re absolutely right you know it was me being humbled and being you know it’s a big part of my story right even in the

26:06

very beginning of like having to accept help I had to accept help to even get into treatment um um yeah I think you’re

26:15

absolutely right I was at a place where you know it couldn’t hurt to try my way wasn’t working right yeah and I think so

26:21

many guys are are isolated to the point where we just keep going keep going keep going and another part of your story

26:26

that stood out to me and a simil to m is like you know as long as you’re making money as long as you’re successful as

26:33

long as your wife is still in the home you could do whatever the [ __ ] you want right and I think as guys because our

26:38

role is so squished into that right into being that provider Financial being the wallet right as long as we’re doing that

26:46

we get that like kind of two-faced thing that you were talking about where you know there’s a work me and there’s a

26:51

drug me right I I had the same thing you know a lot of my stuff was in college but like look as long as I was getting good grades like no nobody could tell me

26:58

what to do and that fed that grandiosity of like I’m just going to go as hard as possible as long as I’m checking this

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box but you know my emotional life was a disaster my relationships were a disaster I had zero spirituality I had

27:13

no ethics I would lie cheat and steal whenever I could right like like everything else was in shambles but I I

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was doing good at the grades right and like I did have a couple jobs you know

27:23

like money was coming in and I was making good grades and like for me that that Justified everything yeah I

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remember you know mywife telling me something I I mean at the time it destroyed me but um now it’s something I

27:38

live by is she said do you really think you are who you present to be and I was

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like o no no I’m absolutely not I

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present is this guy he’s got it Al together who’s you know who’s successful who’s you know um you know all the

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things and I was none of those things you know I could act it very well but I was none of those things um where as

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today I I live by authenticity it’s like everything that I am is like who I am

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right I I try to really um exist you know authentically um and that means you know

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the same thing you were telling that I’m weak sometimes um that I’m not doing good you know that I you know sometimes

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I’m not doing great you know um and be able to tell somebody that feels so much

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better than carrying that around you know um I think you’re absolutely right that this idea of like you know manhood

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um means you just bear everything you got to have big shoulders so you can carry all this weight for not just you

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but for everyone else and you don’t complain about it you just forge forward um and that was definitely what

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I thought it meant you know um what I learned is that like the people who care

28:57

about me want to hear about that even if they can’t do anything about it they want to know like hey man I’m not doing

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great today you know I’m I’m not doing great today I’m a little overwhelmed you know or or or when I am doing great you

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know is is the weird thing about um being a man right we don’t get to say oh

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dude I’m I’m doing amazing today I’m having a great day like the sun is out

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it’s a beautiful day we don’t get to do either extreme we just kind of you know

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good kind of grunt right be like yeah keep on moving right like just that’s our answer

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yeah yeah yeah so it’s you know that it feels a lot better on this side I think

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um I guess the point I was making get to is that um I had to create this

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community um I think a lot of times at least I thought that I was just going to walk into this readymade

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network of friends and and and and that I was just going to walk in it was already made and I would just like slip

30:03

right in you know um and everything would be fine what I’m finding is um

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that I have to my friendships are as good as I am a friend you know I have to Foster and

30:16

build this community I have to call and check on people if I want people to listen to me when I’m not doing great I

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have to listen to people when they’re not doing great I have to um be the friend that I want um um not just

30:29

karmically but what it also does is it it teaches my friends how I want to be treated um

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totally you know it builds this community um and it doesn’t happen overnight but um you know I’m finding

30:45

that you know between that and healthy boundaries about knowing when someone’s not good for you um um um and being able

30:55

to say you know I think I think you’re a great person this just doesn’t work um has been

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amazing at building the community that I need for longterm um for long-term

31:06

recovery yeah I want to dig into kind of the the Tactical part of building Community because you know so many men

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especially when we get over 25 into our 30s even 40s right like they report having zero friends like the when they

31:18

survey men they say zero friends or they say one with a caveat of that’s their partner right like they don’t have

31:25

friends and I think like you know in things like college or in school right like it’s kind of it is kind of given

31:31

for you because there’s so much time in community and there’s so much structure and there’s so many times you’re going to hang out or have sleepovers or you’re

31:38

doing a sports team or whatever right like there’s like so many opportunities and similar to you like I put a ton of

31:43

work into my community right I’m always hosting events I’m always like creating spaces for people to get together I’m

31:48

always trying to reach out and get people to do stuff right um and that’s that’s exhausting right I mean like it’s

31:56

worth it but it is like a part-time job like you know I’m like a community manager and I think a lot of guys like

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yeah either don’t realize that or don’t feel skilled at that or struggle with rejection especially if they haven’t

32:09

been humbled but but I’m curious yeah your thoughts on like basically yeah like how do you make friends when you’re

32:14

like 35 and older you know CU I think it’s a real problem that a lot of dudes are struggling with yeah I mean I think

32:20

the first thing is it’s going to be awkward yeah but just Embrace that you know it’s going it’s going to be awkward

32:26

um at first um but what I found I think was really encouraging for me was when I started

32:32

doing those things right hey man um dude I’m I’m dude I’m going to take a walk around the park today you want to

32:38

come um the the guys who took me up on that that afterwards they’ be like dude

32:43

that was such that was so great thank you for doing that can can we do that again and it’s like well yeah you know

32:50

but it was awkward to to like you know pick up the phone and call another man and basically ask him on a man date you

32:57

know you know it’s not that it’s not going to be awkward it’s going to be awkward um I

33:05

I think the other thing is to especially in the recovery Community um and and

33:11

outside of it I’m sure too is to recognize that like a part of getting to know other

33:18

people is getting to know myself too um there were a lot of things that um in active addiction and even before that I

33:26

dismissed um because I thought I didn’t like them you know um it turns out I love the art

33:33

museum you know but the first time I went in recovery I was like why am I doing this this is this is whack like

33:40

why am I doing this and I was like dude you don’t know what you like you didn’t do anything that didn’t serve beer before so you don’t you don’t know you

33:47

don’t know if you like this place or not you know so that kind of discovery that kind of like walking into new things and

33:55

new situations and having somebody there with me has been great you know somebody to walk through it with me I can in real

34:02

time process it hey man what do you think of this and let’s look at this or you know those things just being open to

34:08

kind of discovering who I am um has been huge I think that’s so big right because

34:13

I think a lot of dudes are we get stuck our personalities get stuck it’s like yeah I’m in the same stuff I was into in

34:18

high school right I like sports you know I like video games I like drinking right

34:24

and and you can see it you can see there’s like some guys that never quite grew up and never quite like took a risk

34:31

you know like going to the art museum right or picking up a new activity right or trying something new like camping or

34:38

water sports literally whatever right like I I think I think it comes back to that humility piece you know the thing

34:44

that I really work on my guys um and my practice with is like being good at

34:49

being bad at stuff because there’s always that phase where you just suck

34:54

ass and you’re just bad and you’re the weakest one and you’re like don’t know what you’re doing but if you can learn to be good at being bad at stuff the

35:01

world your oyster you know 100% I am I recently you I’m a musician and um I’ve

35:08

played like gospel and R&B my whole life very cool you know and recently somebody

35:13

asked me if I wanted to play in a country band and I was like yeah

35:19

sure why not you know and I get in there and yeah man I suck at country music you

35:24

know there’s some stuff that I’m just not good at but now I’m because like like you said

35:30

humility I’m able to have this experience that I otherwise would have completely cut myself off from you know

35:37

and so I’m able to have it and enjoy it and like yeah man I don’t know that I’ll

35:42

be you know um trying to get inducted into the grand old opery or anything like that but I’m

35:48

enjoying myself and it’s something that I I don’t think I otherwise would have let myself do yeah and that’s the thing

35:54

I me we’ll talk about it kind of in the next segment about what modern masculinity is but there’s this toxic masculinity piece which is just what you

36:00

said which is like deep insecurity right where like a guy will say hey you want to play country and then like the toxic

36:06

way like no country’s stupid like I would never do that like you just like hit it with judgment but like the real

36:12

reason is like I’m scared right like I’m scared I don’t know how to do this I don’t want people to judge me like it’s

36:18

not coming from a place of strength at all you know it’s coming from a place of of insecurity absolutely man absolutely

36:24

I think you know that’s you said the magic words you know like I’m scared yeah um I’m scared and like that is so

36:34

much of like um I think healthy fear is very important you know I uh I tell

36:40

people all the time I I should have been afraid of doing math but you know like you said that kind of task I’ll be I’ll be fine I’m

36:47

the man dude I do I do all kinds of stuff that normal people shouldn’t do like I’m I’ll be fine I should have been

36:54

afraid I should have like you know I’m really afraid of that I don’t know I’ll come back from that um and that would

37:01

have been great man that would have been great would really helped that was too manly to be like

37:07

afraid of anything you know um so yeah I think that’s I think that’s very important that ability to just FL out

37:13

say I’m scared of that um maybe I should try it yeah yeah well and that was so much of my drug story too you know I

37:19

would just like take smoke anything right like because I just didn’t want to look like a [ __ ] right like like

37:25

they’re like oh yeah you want to like do this line of coke I’m like oh yeah done Coke tons of times like I really you know no problem for me whereas like I

37:31

was a nerd growing up like I didn’t know about any of this [ __ ] you know like I just like didn’t want to be judged and

37:37

it got me in too far too deep too fast 100% 100% 100% dude um and yeah man

37:45

today it’s it’s a lot different you know I’m afraid of a lot of stuff yeah yeah

37:50

and some fears is worth leaning into and some fear is probably there for a good reason so yeah you know and being able

37:55

to say it out loud helps me decipher which one of these that is you know like yeah man I’m afraid of jumping out of

38:00

this plane maybe I’ll do it though if you know there safety precautions and you can talk me into it maybe I’ll do it

38:06

all right well we’re going to move to our next commercial break when we come back we’re going to talk about tactical steps how to build community um also

38:12

kind of talk about yeah I think managing male emotions and kind of what modern masculinity looks like for you you know

38:19

what your definition is so hang on in there and we’ll see you on the other side of the commercial break sounds

38:26

good

38:56

e

39:26

e

39:56

e e

40:47

welcome back to the show Rashad I just want to dive right into it right like what is modern masculinity to you now

40:55

that you’ve been through all this you’ve learned so much [ __ ] like what does it mean to be a man big

41:01

question um you know I I’ve been thinking about this a lot [Music]

41:07

um you know it goes back to was when I was very early recovery I had this

41:13

incident where someone you know disrespected me and I was telling my sponsor I was like but you know this

41:19

recovery stuff is cool but like I’m a man dude I’m a man you’re not just going to talk to me any kind of

41:25

way he was like what what does that mean like why you know why are you letting

41:30

this bother you so much

41:37

um and and so like that really sat with me right this idea of that was what I

41:42

identified as like men is is people who confront things who are you know um

41:47

respected and probably a little scared of me you know that sort of thing um I

41:54

think I’ve been dealing with this for a couple years now right what what does that mean to me and I think really and

42:00

truthfully um I I think it means modern masculinity to me is being

42:07

able to be authentic you know I kind of said it earlier but I think that’s really it I think you know some people

42:16

um some men really are you know um muscle head competitor guys and that’s

42:22

awesome as long as it’s authentic other people are

42:28

more artistic and um probably a little daydreamy and that’s fine I think modern

42:35

masculinity is being able to lean into whatever is authentically you

42:41

um without demeaning demoralizing or belittling anyone else

42:47

for being themselves um having this strength of of character to be yourself

42:52

without demanding that of anyone else I think is I I think is kind what modern masculinity means to me well

43:00

so let me ask you this right like how do you know who you are right because

43:06

because and again it’s like a lot of guys that I work with when you ask them like hey what do you feel about X Y and

43:11

Z they often say I I don’t know or or I don’t feel anything or I feel pissed

43:17

right like we’re allowed to be like happy angry and horny is basically the only three feelings we get as a man um

43:23

so I’m just wondering I think authenticity is key right so what has that Journey been like for you for me

43:28

it’s been um a mixture right I think you know not everybody as you’re kind of mentioned right not everybody’s going to

43:34

have this kind of um beautiful journey of discovery that is recovery that I’ve

43:40

had um you know we do a lot of work around um identifying our fears and

43:46

resentment um you know confronting amends and really kind of like this deep

43:51

dive into who you are and who you want to be um on this end of it though um

43:57

I’ve been doing personally this feels like like a plug I promise you it’s it’s true and authentic I’ve been doing a lot

44:04

of therapy um and right around the time where I was ready to kind of quit I was like what am I doing here this is I come

44:11

in here I talk to this dude and like I don’t understand what I’m doing right around that time he said you know I

44:17

think we I think we’re hitting upon why you’re here I think you’re trying to figure out who you

44:24

are and I was like oh yeah oh yeah feels that feels accurate

44:32

um and for me it’s it’s been amazing right to have someone

44:37

to um bounce these ideas or even just scenarios right things that have gone

44:42

I’ve gone through in the time since the last time we met um and really kind of flesh out how those things made me feel

44:49

and how I why I reacted in the way that I did and um that has been an amazing

44:55

journey of self-discovery for me me um for those you know like I said without that recovery piece or even with it yeah

45:03

so so for tactical thing like how do you encourage guys what’s a step that they can take to start to lean more into

45:13

authenticity um you know for me I put pin to paper I

45:20

can’t really tell you other other than what I do I put pined paper I spend um

45:28

time with myself analyzing I think about a lot which is why the therapy piece is

45:33

great right I spend time thinking about my actions um um and I take accountability for him

45:42

um which sounds like a small piece but it’s actually really huge right because if I’m going to be responsible for

45:48

whatever my actions are it makes me think about them a lot more right if I’m going have to stand behind this um uh

45:56

then I think about it a lot harder before I do it right it gives me that time to kind of um process what I’m what

46:02

I’m doing or what my stance is and why I think the why is really important When developing authenticity why do I think

46:09

that way and being able to like challenge myself you know um on the wise

46:16

you know why am I doing this why do I feel this way yeah I think accountability is critical right and I

46:21

think it like a lot of guys don’t take it and I think it removes the good verse evil story that I think a lot of men live in

46:28

right like either we’re the hero or the villain there’s no room for nuance there’s no room for gray and I think

46:34

once we can start being authentic and take responsibility for our lives you know we can start to start to grow you

46:40

know there’s um we had a guest on a couple weeks ago uh Donald and he had this great model that I want to run past you here’s what you think he talks about

46:47

how you know in this process we go from villain to victim to Hero to guide you

46:54

know and and I’m thinking about that when I hear your story and I I think a lot of guys go through that and sometimes we get stuck in in villain or

47:00

in victim and we never really progress to those other tiers mhm yeah I think that’s

47:08

um man you’re absolutely right when I think about it I that that Rings really true you know I used to even identify as

47:15

myself like I was I was always um the antagonist I always identified as the

47:21

antagonist um um and I think like you said I think a lot of that comes from

47:27

not want to be accountable so any of the things I did that I that my soul didn’t

47:33

really agree with I could I could always be like wow I’m the bad guy of course I you know yeah me too I mean I get the

47:40

villain the villain era is real you know it’s like I guess I’m just the [ __ ] yeah yeah I’m just I’m just that guy I

47:47

don’t know um and it’s really wild right because I I I never thought about that before that is absolutely true it allows

47:54

me to escape the accountabil ility for the actions that I don’t necessarily agree with um whereas today I I

48:04

definitely I don’t know that I’m a guide in per se right that feels really lofty but I definitely um feel like the

48:10

protagonist of this story or at least this part of my story you know I definitely feel like I’m I’m on the side

48:16

of good in this point in my life and that’s again because I hold myself accountable if I do something that’s I

48:23

don’t think is in line with that um then first of all i’ look at it and try to figure out why what was the motivation

48:29

for that um I sit on it right and I really and

48:35

then I try to write any wrongs that it created any harm that it might have created I try to write um and that

48:40

allows me to feel good about myself so much more consistently um you know I think yeah

48:47

yeah I’ll leave it there yeah it allows me to feel really good about myself a lot yeah yeah and not have that like

48:53

inner villain right or I think a lot of men have an inner coward you know we like we remember all those times where

48:59

we backed down or didn’t do the right thing or you know got scared and again like we’re saying in the other segment

49:05

like fear is not bad I think fear is like is telling you hey pay attention [ __ ] right like notice what’s

49:12

happening you know it tries to like wake us up and drops us into the moment so there’s a lot of like power and wisdom

49:17

and fear but I think cowardice right is like letting the fear win too many times

49:23

you know and like having it keep you small yeah I think it’s important right I do think fear is important right and

49:29

it’s like weird because I’m I’m saying both things and I mean them equally right sometimes you know you walk

49:35

through that fear and I think that’s important and sometimes sometimes you should stop you

49:42

know I think both are true um uh yeah man it doesn’t make you it doesn’t make

49:48

you bad or like you said a a coward I think I think when that when that fear is founded when it has reason um to stop

49:56

you in trct it should yeah you know I mean jao willik

50:01

talks about this right the idea of Navy SEALs like they don’t not feel fear which I think is what a lot of men again

50:07

like we talked about don’t want try to do things because they just like don’t want to feel fear because I think that makes them weak is that Navy Seals can

50:13

operate while afraid right like that’s what they’re training is like to be afraid and to go and do the thing anyway

50:19

and and that’s real strength to me you know 100% 100% you know I I think you

50:26

know that’s not my story right that kind of like um but but I I am a performer

50:32

and I I tell people all the time like he if you’re not afraid you’re not ready MH

50:38

if I’m not nervous walking on that stage I’m not ready I need to feel a little

50:43

bit afraid I need to feel a little bit of oh do I remember all these songs oh do I oh dude I don’t have a solo

50:50

prepared for this oh you know I need that I need that little bit of fear and

50:55

I need to walk through it it um because walking through that then I find Triumph

51:00

right if it wasn’t a thing who cares if I did it or not yeah

51:05

like it it has to be a little bit challenging you know and it brings me back to community because I think of your story like just hearing I think

51:11

especially other men share their fears and share their triumphs and share like their themselves growing I don’t think

51:18

there’s anything better than that and I think we need that we need to just like stop posturing and stop like all just

51:24

being as cocky as possible or all pretending that we’re Bulletproof because it’s not really working it’s not really working for

51:30

us oh no um no dud it’s

51:35

a yeah mean I I I me personally like I said I I I love this idea of um of being

51:42

afraid and moving through any way what I love about being the man I am the person

51:48

I am man he’s like I’ll tell you hey I don’t like this at all you know I don’t

51:54

like this at all do it um you know if it’s something that needs to be done but I don’t I don’t like this um and what I

52:01

found is when you’re able to voice that you inevitably when I say things like that

52:07

some other man is like oh yeah man me too it doesn’t take that much yeah you have to be the first one to say it

52:14

right oh yeah this this is horrible yeah absolutely man 100% yeah so as we’re

52:20

moving towards the close of our show what is a message you like our listeners to take away with something that they

52:26

can hold for the next week man I I um thank you for this I

52:32

think the most important thing to know is um that both you’re worthy of Love um

52:41

and you’re capable of giving love like your love is wanted and

52:48

warranted um I think is the biggest thing to take away yeah really well said

52:53

beautiful so Rashad thank you so much for being on the show where can people find you online and learn more about you

52:59

and what you do wow um you know I’m on the socials I

53:04

guess just as Rashad Sutton um you can find me there um um I’m I’m really

53:11

involved I think I I would like to plug this we’re really involved with Colorado artist in recovery cool um which do

53:16

online workshops and that sort of thing not only just online but inperson workshops for people in recovery um for

53:22

people not in recovery um for people who just need an outlet need to do some some sort of Art and I also work for the

53:29

Raleigh house um and you can find sits at both primary mental health as well as

53:35

um a substance use treatment center you can find us at thehouse.com great well

53:41

thanks again for being on the show if you’re a listener please like subscribe comment do all this stuff if you think

53:47

that someone would be inspired by Rashad’s message of love and authenticity share it with them the more listeners more guys we get listening to

53:54

this I think we can start to really change the world and really make a difference out there um so Rashad thanks again for being on the show thanks for

54:01

having me and listeners thanks for tuning in we’ll see you next week another episode of the men’s therapy podcast